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UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(



 
 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old September 8th 06, 10:17 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Conor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 511
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

In article , Ryan
says...
Do you work for Microsoft? How can you say it won't happen? Also, why the
heck would it be a good thing NOT to allow people to customize their OS.
Microsoft is not liable for damages, it's no skin off their back if your
entire system gets jacked up by unsigned drivers.

There is NO benefit of this to administrators like myself who run their
systems responsibly, keep them well protected and enjoy control over their
OS. A "ultimate" version should allow the most options of control.

Also, last I checked it is not possible to seamlessly update from 32-bit to
64-bit. I actually formatted my entire C drive for this. Now you're
advising that I format again to go to 32-bit cleanly and then not have the
ability to upgrade to 64-bit easily later if they do resolve all the UAC /
DRM / etc. crap? Talk about a hassle to put your paying customers through!

Do some homework. Absolutely everybody with a clue has ditched x64 in
both XP and Vista because of abysmal driver and application support.


--
Conor

How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the
stupidity-problem solve itself?
  #12 (permalink)  
Old September 8th 06, 10:19 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Conor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 511
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

In article , Ryan
says...
Well, you guys want to know why I'm so upset? I REALLY like Vista. I love
the navigation system, I love the "Aero" deal, I love the style, etc. I
actually called my brother out in St.Louis and told him this is the coolest
version of Windows yet and that he needs to get the RC too. Then after hours
and hours of trying to get my sound working with non-signed Creative drivers
and then running into issues with my paid for copy of Alcohol (which is
obviously blacklisted by name by the OS itself), I began to wake up from the
dream.

What OS is Alcohol written for? XP. What OS are you trying to run it
on? Vista. Vista is not XP. It has a different driver architecture. You
MAY get away with running SOME XP drivers but it isn't guaranteed.

The problem isn't Microsoft. It is YOU. You should be chasing the
authors of Alcohol for a Vista version.


--
Conor

How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the
stupidity-problem solve itself?
  #13 (permalink)  
Old September 8th 06, 11:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
MICHAEL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,469
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

Try VistaBoot Pro. There is a setting to allow
unsigned drivers to work. Have a look at the
screenshot below.
http://www.pro-networks.org/vistaboo...P2Advanced.png

http://www.pro-networks.org/vistabootpro/index.php


-Michael

"Ryan" wrote in message
...
Ok, I cannot comprehend what Microsoft was thinking. I cannot install sound
drivers. I cannot install 3rd party applications that I paid for that
require driver installs. For example, Alcohol 120%. I used that to mount
images that I own the rights to. Guess what - no matter what I do or tweak,
Vista 64-bit will NOT allow it to install a driver. Same goes for Cubase.
I'm driving myself insane with this.

If this is how Vista is going to be, it is robbing me of my freedom to run
whatever I want. I am so sick and tired of all the prompts, the
restrictions, etc. I can't even hear sound because of the 64-bit version's
paranoia of unsigned drivers. There is NO way I will ever use Vista as an OS
if this is how it is. I'm sorry, I build my computer with my money and it is
my right to run the show how I'd like and install whatever drivers I want
risky or not.

I really don't understand this. It actually sickens me. Looks like I'll
either be sticking with XP for many more years or I'll have to try to pick up
Linux.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...sta.sec urity


  #14 (permalink)  
Old September 8th 06, 11:32 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Ryan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

I already reverted to 32-bit and I have been able to run everything. I even
found a cd-mounter which hasn't been blocked by MS yet. It really sucks that
I had to downgrade to get control over my system though.

"MICHAEL" wrote:

Try VistaBoot Pro. There is a setting to allow
unsigned drivers to work. Have a look at the
screenshot below.
http://www.pro-networks.org/vistaboo...P2Advanced.png

http://www.pro-networks.org/vistabootpro/index.php


-Michael

"Ryan" wrote in message
...
Ok, I cannot comprehend what Microsoft was thinking. I cannot install sound
drivers. I cannot install 3rd party applications that I paid for that
require driver installs. For example, Alcohol 120%. I used that to mount
images that I own the rights to. Guess what - no matter what I do or tweak,
Vista 64-bit will NOT allow it to install a driver. Same goes for Cubase.
I'm driving myself insane with this.

If this is how Vista is going to be, it is robbing me of my freedom to run
whatever I want. I am so sick and tired of all the prompts, the
restrictions, etc. I can't even hear sound because of the 64-bit version's
paranoia of unsigned drivers. There is NO way I will ever use Vista as an OS
if this is how it is. I'm sorry, I build my computer with my money and it is
my right to run the show how I'd like and install whatever drivers I want
risky or not.

I really don't understand this. It actually sickens me. Looks like I'll
either be sticking with XP for many more years or I'll have to try to pick up
Linux.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...sta.sec urity



  #15 (permalink)  
Old September 8th 06, 11:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Jane C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 349
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

Ryan, if you have a spare partition or hard drive, you may be interested in
downloading and installing the 120 day trial version of XP Professional x64
Edition which is still available from Microsoft. You may be pleasantly
surprised ;-) Don't give up on x64 completely.

--
Jane, not plain 64 bit enabled
Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation :-)

"Ryan" wrote in message
...
I already reverted to 32-bit and I have been able to run everything. I
even
found a cd-mounter which hasn't been blocked by MS yet. It really sucks
that
I had to downgrade to get control over my system though.

"MICHAEL" wrote:

Try VistaBoot Pro. There is a setting to allow
unsigned drivers to work. Have a look at the
screenshot below.
http://www.pro-networks.org/vistaboo...P2Advanced.png

http://www.pro-networks.org/vistabootpro/index.php


-Michael

"Ryan" wrote in message
...
Ok, I cannot comprehend what Microsoft was thinking. I cannot install
sound
drivers. I cannot install 3rd party applications that I paid for that
require driver installs. For example, Alcohol 120%. I used that to
mount
images that I own the rights to. Guess what - no matter what I do or
tweak,
Vista 64-bit will NOT allow it to install a driver. Same goes for
Cubase.
I'm driving myself insane with this.

If this is how Vista is going to be, it is robbing me of my freedom to
run
whatever I want. I am so sick and tired of all the prompts, the
restrictions, etc. I can't even hear sound because of the 64-bit
version's
paranoia of unsigned drivers. There is NO way I will ever use Vista as
an OS
if this is how it is. I'm sorry, I build my computer with my money and
it is
my right to run the show how I'd like and install whatever drivers I
want
risky or not.

I really don't understand this. It actually sickens me. Looks like
I'll
either be sticking with XP for many more years or I'll have to try to
pick up
Linux.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
"I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...sta.sec urity




  #16 (permalink)  
Old September 9th 06, 03:16 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Sascha Benjamin Jazbec
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 196
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

I just read the complete thread here and also I do not have 64bit system and
can't talk about the technical Aspect of the x64 version - I will say that
Ryan, the Thread-starter is absolutely right in what he is writing.

I experienced something similar what aspects too much "control" :

I have bought "the Sims 2" game and it refused to install on my (legally
preinstalled on my PC) Windows XP and told me "virtual imagedrive was found!
First uninstall that !" .. it was my Alcohol / CloneCD combi (both bought)
You know what ? I have taken the Sims Game and exchanged it in the
Software-Shop and took an other game therefore.
I will never buy games from Electronic Arts anymore. That is what they have
reached by wanting me to tell me what my PC can have installed and waht not
only for their f**ing game.

If Vista will behave that agressive - well...

Back to the DriverProblem of the OP :

In Vista x86 you can press F8 on boot and check "no driver signature force"
..

Try that if you ever run in trouble again with the x86 version.
Also I have a lot of hope that soon after Vista will be RTMed we will see a
lot of Tweaking Programs, articles about how to turn off certain things and
so on.. "VistaAntispy" "TweakVista" "VistaUncovered"... just a matter of
time I guess.

SBJ ( germany )

"Jane C" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Ryan, if you have a spare partition or hard drive, you may be interested
in downloading and installing the 120 day trial version of XP Professional
x64 Edition which is still available from Microsoft. You may be
pleasantly surprised ;-) Don't give up on x64 completely.

--
Jane, not plain 64 bit enabled
Batteries not included. Braincell on vacation :-)

"Ryan" wrote in message
...
I already reverted to 32-bit and I have been able to run everything. I
even
found a cd-mounter which hasn't been blocked by MS yet. It really sucks
that
I had to downgrade to get control over my system though.

"MICHAEL" wrote:

Try VistaBoot Pro. There is a setting to allow
unsigned drivers to work. Have a look at the
screenshot below.
http://www.pro-networks.org/vistaboo...P2Advanced.png

http://www.pro-networks.org/vistabootpro/index.php


-Michael

"Ryan" wrote in message
...
Ok, I cannot comprehend what Microsoft was thinking. I cannot install
sound
drivers. I cannot install 3rd party applications that I paid for that
require driver installs. For example, Alcohol 120%. I used that to
mount
images that I own the rights to. Guess what - no matter what I do or
tweak,
Vista 64-bit will NOT allow it to install a driver. Same goes for
Cubase.
I'm driving myself insane with this.

If this is how Vista is going to be, it is robbing me of my freedom to
run
whatever I want. I am so sick and tired of all the prompts, the
restrictions, etc. I can't even hear sound because of the 64-bit
version's
paranoia of unsigned drivers. There is NO way I will ever use Vista
as an OS
if this is how it is. I'm sorry, I build my computer with my money
and it is
my right to run the show how I'd like and install whatever drivers I
want
risky or not.

I really don't understand this. It actually sickens me. Looks like
I'll
either be sticking with XP for many more years or I'll have to try to
pick up
Linux.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click
the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com...sta.sec urity




  #17 (permalink)  
Old September 10th 06, 10:07 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Jimmy Brush
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 827
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

Those applications chose not to have their drivers signed. Microsoft has
made it clear that 64-bit apps will require driver signing. They are not
blocking anyone from making drivers, and they are not forcing you to do
anything.

Microsoft owns the platform. They set the requirements for how 3rd party
programs, such as device drivers, plug in to the operating system. You are
free to use whatever program you want the correctly interfaces with the
platform. It's not Microsoft's fault that some companies refuse to make
compliant software.

It is frustrating in this beta-timeframe when there is poor application
support for 64-bit windows and driver signing. But that will change. That is
the price you pay for running the latest and greatest.

But Microsoft is doing the correct thing - even though it hurts right now.
Change is always painful.

--
- JB

Windows Vista Support Faq
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/

  #18 (permalink)  
Old September 23rd 06, 05:54 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
DJJoker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(



"Wayne McGlinn" wrote:

What is your problem with Microsoft? You're running *beta/rc* software! MS
have decided that the 64bit version will not install unsigned drivers, what
a fantastic idea! No more kernel issues or security issues from unsigned,
unsafe software.
Instead of blaming MS and crying about your third party software, blame the
software companies for not releasing new, signed drivers for a *beta/rc*
operating system! They will release the signed drivers once Vista is
released.
Try installing a 32 bit version instead, you'll find most drivers will work.
"my right to run the show how I'd like " "it actaully sickens me" ...
pfffft, you'd be the first to cry if/when an exploit destroyed your data
because you installed an unsigned driver.

Wayne
Brisbane, Oz



Just a small note on this. I noticed that Ryan made reference to Cubase,
which is a professional Audio application. I am in a similar position and
cannot get my sound to work which is probably due to a driver issue.

The BIG problem here is that my soundcard has not and never will be signed
by Microsoft.... all because it does NOT support DRM on the SPDIF connections
which is pretty normal for professional standard equipment.

So the fact that you will NEED driver signing is stupid really, the system
they have in place on Win XP is fine, a suitable warning is enough.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old September 24th 06, 09:18 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Robert Moir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

On 2006-09-08 05:48:01 +0100, Ryan said:

Well, you guys want to know why I'm so upset? I REALLY like Vista. I
love the navigation system, I love the "Aero" deal, I love the style,
etc. I actually called my brother out in St.Louis and told him this is
the coolest version of Windows yet and that he needs to get the RC too.
Then after hours and hours of trying to get my sound working with
non-signed Creative drivers and then running into issues with my paid
for copy of Alcohol (which is obviously blacklisted by name by the OS
itself), I began to wake up from the dream.

If Microsoft would just give people like me the ability to take our own
risks, it'd keep up silent about all the methods meant to protect us.
Freedom exists in this world for a reason. Do you see vehicle
manufacturers FORCING you to install roll cages and 4 point seat belts?
Do you see lifeguards forcing people to wear wetsuits, carry oxygen
tanks and wear goggles? Do you see BBQ grills forcing you to cook your
steak to well done to prevent food poisoning? It's STUPID to force
people to do things when everyone has a different preference. It's
also stupid to tell me what kind of seasonings to use on my steak (aka
banning stuff like Alcohol). This is my computer. I built it. I paid
for the software I use on it. I paid for all the OSs I've ever used.
All I want is for MS to give me my freedom to use my computer how I
want.
Again, I love Vista but my got is it a shame that to have 64-bit
functionality out of my dual core processor that I build FOR Vista, I
have to be controlled. It's just another in the lost list of lost
personal freedoms except in this case it's not the government doing it,
it's Microsoft.


So this version of Alcohol120% you're trying to run. Does it say it's
compatible with Vista? 64-bit Vista? 64 bit Windows XP for that matter?
Or does it just claim to run on 32-bit Windows XP?

Because, you know, you'd look kind of foolish if you were screaming
like a baby over Vista not being able to run software that the software
manufacturer themselves does not certify for 64-bit Vista.

--
Robert Moir
Microsoft MVP for Security

www.robertmoir.com

  #20 (permalink)  
Old September 24th 06, 09:23 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.security
Robert Moir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 30
Default UAC / Signed Drivers / etc. are a joke :(

On 2006-09-23 18:54:02 +0100, DJJoker said:

Just a small note on this. I noticed that Ryan made reference to
Cubase, which is a professional Audio application. I am in a similar
position and cannot get my sound to work which is probably due to a
driver issue.

The BIG problem here is that my soundcard has not and never will be
signed by Microsoft.... all because it does NOT support DRM on the
SPDIF connections which is pretty normal for professional standard
equipment.


It doesn't need to be signed _by Microsoft_
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winlog...ign_perOS.mspx

Just needs to be signed properly.


So the fact that you will NEED driver signing is stupid really, the
system they have in place on Win XP is fine, a suitable warning is
enough.


The XP system might be fine for you, but I've cleaned up enough broken
computers to be able to say that it isn't fine for everyone. Remember,
this system doesn't just have to deal with the best of customers
installing the best of products but also with the worse qualified
customers installing awful products.

--
Robert Moir
Microsoft MVP for Security

www.robertmoir.com

 




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