What must I do to uninstall adobe Reader8.1.2 . I am told there is not
sufficient access to uninstall same, that I need to contact a`systems
administrator.How do I do that, what are my steps?
--
Marge T


"Alan Simpson" wrote:

Well said Jimmy. But just a couple minor additions. Using a computer in a
limited account for day-to-day stuff has been a security "best practice" for
many years, and totally ignored outside the corporate environment for just
as many years. Basically Vista makes that practice security best practice
automatic and as painless as possible by letting you temporarily elevate
on-the-fly on an as-needed basis.

Also, for home users, there's a tie-in to parental controls here. From a
password-protected administrative account you can set parental controls on
children's standard accounts and monitor their computer and Internet use.
The kids can't get to any of that from their standard accounts (without an
administrative password). So they can't tamper with any of that.


"Jimmy Brush" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are either
directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In this
post, I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind it,
how to use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and
answer some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.


* What is UAC and what does it do?

UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation that
(primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.

When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly give
permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers. Any
program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will be
denied access.


* How does UAC work

When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given only
"standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in as an
administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be "elevated" to
get full admin access to the system:

- If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up, and you
click Continue
- If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it, then
clicking Run As Administrator

A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give permission,
ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot change
from one to the other.

If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts
another program, that program will automatically be given admin powers
without needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows
Explorer as administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad
will open and display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was
opened from the admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run
WITH admin powers, and will not ask for permission.


* What's the point of UAC?

UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your hands,
instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.

When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that could
somehow get itself started could take control of the entire computer
without you even knowing about it.

With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in order
for it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the program
got there or how it is started.

This is important to all levels of users - from home users to enterprise
administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin powers
and being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such power
is a VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system
tantamount to "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now
control your system.


* How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?

It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access to your
computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that come
with Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin
permissions when you start them. However, most other programs will not.

This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows Vista-era
programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until then, you
will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were not
designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".

Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not even
the built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as
administrator" in order to run administrative command-line utilities.

Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real pain
when you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to work
with system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another
operating system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same
vein, ANY program that you run that needs access to system files or files
that you didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".

If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long time,
running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less painful - you
will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you try to
change a system-wide setting.

In short:

- Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
- Run setup programs as admin
- Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if) they need
admin access
- Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that aren't
yours or system files
- Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or system files
as admin
- Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the control
panel


* UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off

Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very frustrating to
run a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you for
it (you have to right-click these programs and click Run As Administrator
for them to run correctly).

But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant when
weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your system
without you being informed. The first time the permission dialog pops up
and it is from some program that you know nothing about or that you do not
want to have access to your system, you will be very glad that the Cancel
button was available to you.


* Answers to common questions and responses to common criticism

Q: I have anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or something
similar. Why do I need UAC?

A: Detectors can only see known threats. And of all the known threats in
existence, they only detect the most common of those threats. With UAC
turned on, *you* control what programs have access to your computer - you
can stop ALL threats. Detectors are nice, but they're not enough. How many
people do you know that have detectors of all kinds and yet are still
infested with programs that they don't want on their computer? Everyone
that I have ever helped falls into this category.


Q: Does UAC replace anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or similar
programs?

A: No. Microsoft recommends that you use a virus scanner and/or other
types of security software. These types of programs compliment UAC: They
will get rid of known threats for you. UAC will allow you to stop unknown
threats, as well as prevent any program that you do not trust from gaining
access to your computer.


Q: I am a system administrator - I have no use for UAC.

A: Really? You don't NEED to know when a program on your computer runs
with admin powers? You are a system administrator and you really could
care less when a program runs that has full control of your system, and
possibly your entire domain? You're joking, right?


Q: UAC keeps me from accessing files and folders

A: No, it doesn't - UAC protects you from programs that would try to
delete or modify system files and folders without your knowledge. If you
want a program to have full access to the files on your computer, you will
need to run it as admin. Or as an alternative, if possible, put the files
it needs access to in a place that all programs have access to - such as
your documents folder, or any folder under your user folder.


Q: UAC stops programs from working correctly

A: If a program needs admin power and it doesn't ask you for permission
when it starts, you have to give it admin powers by right-clicking it and
clicking Run As Administrator. Programs should work like they did in XP
when you use Run As Administrator. If they don't, then this is a bug.


Q: UAC keeps me from doing things that I could do in XP

A: This is not the case. Just remember that programs that do not ask for
permission when they start do not get admin access to your computer. If
you are using a tool that needs admin access, right-click it and click Run
As Administrator. It should work exactly as it did in XP. If it does not,
then this is a bug.


Q: UAC is Microsoft's way of controlling my computer and preventing me
from using it!

A: This is 100% UNTRUE. UAC puts control of your computer IN YOUR HANDS by
allowing you to prevent unwanted programs from accessing your computer.
*Everything* that you can do with UAC turned off, you can do with it
turned on. If this is not the case, then that is a bug.


Q: I don't need Windows to hold my freaking hand! I *know* what I've got
on my computer, and I *know* when programs run! I am logged on as an
ADMINISTRATOR for a dang reason!

A: I accept the way that you think, and can see the logic, but I don't
agree with this idea. UAC is putting POWER in your hands by letting you
CONTROL what runs on your system. But you want to give up this control and
allow all programs to run willy-nilly. Look, if you want to do this go
right ahead, you can turn UAC off and things will return to how they
worked in XP. But, don't be surprised when either 1) You run something by
mistake that messes up your computer and/or domain, or 2) A program
somehow gets on your computer that you know nothing about that takes over
your computer and/or domain, and UAC would have allowed you to have
stopped it.


- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/

All of that nonsense can be eliminated by running UAC in “quiet� mode.

"Alan Simpson" wrote:

Well said Jimmy. But just a couple minor additions. Using a computer in a
limited account for day-to-day stuff has been a security "best practice"
for
many years, and totally ignored outside the corporate environment for
just
as many years. Basically Vista makes that practice security best practice
automatic and as painless as possible by letting you temporarily elevate
on-the-fly on an as-needed basis.

Also, for home users, there's a tie-in to parental controls here. From a
password-protected administrative account you can set parental controls
on
children's standard accounts and monitor their computer and Internet use.
The kids can't get to any of that from their standard accounts (without
an
administrative password). So they can't tamper with any of that.


"Jimmy Brush" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are either
directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In this
post, I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind
it,
how to use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off,
and
answer some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.


* What is UAC and what does it do?

UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation
that
(primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.

When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly
give
permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers. Any
program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will be
denied access.


* How does UAC work

When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given only
"standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in as an
administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be "elevated"
to
get full admin access to the system:

- If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up, and
you
click Continue
- If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it, then
clicking Run As Administrator

A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give
permission,
ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot change
from one to the other.

If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts
another program, that program will automatically be given admin powers
without needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows
Explorer as administrator, and then double-click on a text file,
notepad
will open and display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was
opened from the admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically
run
WITH admin powers, and will not ask for permission.


* What's the point of UAC?

UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your hands,
instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.

When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that
could
somehow get itself started could take control of the entire computer
without you even knowing about it.

With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in
order
for it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the
program
got there or how it is started.

This is important to all levels of users - from home users to
enterprise
administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin
powers
and being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such
power
is a VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system
tantamount to "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU
now
control your system.


* How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?

It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access to
your
computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that come
with Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin
permissions when you start them. However, most other programs will not.

This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows
Vista-era
programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until then,
you
will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were not
designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".

Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not even
the built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as
administrator" in order to run administrative command-line utilities.

Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real pain
when you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to
work
with system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another
operating system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same
vein, ANY program that you run that needs access to system files or
files
that you didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".

If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long time,
running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less painful -
you
will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you try
to
change a system-wide setting.

In short:

- Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
- Run setup programs as admin
- Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if) they
need
admin access
- Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that
aren't
yours or system files
- Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or system
files
as admin
- Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the control
panel


* UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off

Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very frustrating to
run a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you
for
it (you have to right-click these programs and click Run As
Administrator
for them to run correctly).

But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant
when
weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your
system
without you being informed. The first time the permission dialog pops
up
and it is from some program that you know nothing about or that you do
not
want to have access to your system, you will be very glad that the
Cancel
button was available to you.


* Answers to common questions and responses to common criticism

Q: I have anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or something
similar. Why do I need UAC?

A: Detectors can only see known threats. And of all the known threats
in
existence, they only detect the most common of those threats. With UAC
turned on, *you* control what programs have access to your computer -
you
can stop ALL threats. Detectors are nice, but they're not enough. How
many
people do you know that have detectors of all kinds and yet are still
infested with programs that they don't want on their computer? Everyone
that I have ever helped falls into this category.


Q: Does UAC replace anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or
similar
programs?

A: No. Microsoft recommends that you use a virus scanner and/or other
types of security software. These types of programs compliment UAC:
They
will get rid of known threats for you. UAC will allow you to stop
unknown
threats, as well as prevent any program that you do not trust from
gaining
access to your computer.


Q: I am a system administrator - I have no use for UAC.

A: Really? You don't NEED to know when a program on your computer runs
with admin powers? You are a system administrator and you really could
care less when a program runs that has full control of your system, and
possibly your entire domain? You're joking, right?


Q: UAC keeps me from accessing files and folders

A: No, it doesn't - UAC protects you from programs that would try to
delete or modify system files and folders without your knowledge. If
you
want a program to have full access to the files on your computer, you
will
need to run it as admin. Or as an alternative, if possible, put the
files
it needs access to in a place that all programs have access to - such
as
your documents folder, or any folder under your user folder.


Q: UAC stops programs from working correctly

A: If a program needs admin power and it doesn't ask you for permission
when it starts, you have to give it admin powers by right-clicking it
and
clicking Run As Administrator. Programs should work like they did in XP
when you use Run As Administrator. If they don't, then this is a bug.


Q: UAC keeps me from doing things that I could do in XP

A: This is not the case. Just remember that programs that do not ask
for
permission when they start do not get admin access to your computer. If
you are using a tool that needs admin access, right-click it and click
Run
As Administrator. It should work exactly as it did in XP. If it does
not,
then this is a bug.


Q: UAC is Microsoft's way of controlling my computer and preventing me
from using it!

A: This is 100% UNTRUE. UAC puts control of your computer IN YOUR HANDS
by
allowing you to prevent unwanted programs from accessing your computer.
*Everything* that you can do with UAC turned off, you can do with it
turned on. If this is not the case, then that is a bug.


Q: I don't need Windows to hold my freaking hand! I *know* what I've
got
on my computer, and I *know* when programs run! I am logged on as an
ADMINISTRATOR for a dang reason!

A: I accept the way that you think, and can see the logic, but I don't
agree with this idea. UAC is putting POWER in your hands by letting you
CONTROL what runs on your system. But you want to give up this control
and
allow all programs to run willy-nilly. Look, if you want to do this go
right ahead, you can turn UAC off and things will return to how they
worked in XP. But, don't be surprised when either 1) You run something
by
mistake that messes up your computer and/or domain, or 2) A program
somehow gets on your computer that you know nothing about that takes
over
your computer and/or domain, and UAC would have allowed you to have
stopped it.


- JB

Vista Support FAQ
http://www.jimmah.com/vista/

"Bob" wrote in message
...

All of that nonsense can be eliminated by running UAC in “quiet� mode.

This is a fallacy! If UAC cannot notify the user that a program is trying to
gain global access to the system, then it is effectively 'disabled'. This so
called 'quite mode' setting just changes a UAC registry setting to
'automatically elevate everything without prompting'. This means that when
you click to open a file, it is 'assumed' that you already know that the
file will have unrestricted access to your computer.

The main thing that UAC does is to detect when a program or application
tries to access restricted parts of the system or registry that requires
administrator privileges. When a program does this, UAC will prompt the user
for administrative elevation. Without this prompt, UAC cannot warn the user,
which means that it is effectively disabled.

Some people will tell you that using "quiet mode" will still let IE run in
protected mode, but this just isn't true. Without the UAC prompt, a
malicious file that runs from a website can run, without restrictions, and
silently.

Another issue is that with UAC prompt disabled, some legitimate procedures
will just silently fail to work properly, with no notification, if you are
logged on with a Standard User account, since the application cannot notify
you that administrative privileges are required.

Even the developer of the TweakUAC utility includes this statement about his
product.
"if you are an experienced user and have some understanding of how to manage
your Windows settings properly, you can safely use the quiet mode of UAC."
In my opinion, if you are an experienced user, the last thing you would want
to do is turn off the UAC notification.

If you 'are' an experienced user, then you would already know how to
temporarily bypass the UAC prompt to perform just about any procedure in
Vista, such as running programs from an elevated command prompt, or using an
elevated instance of windows explorer.

The last problem I have with this so-called 'quiet mode' is that it
dissuades developers from programming their applications to run in a least
user privilege environment.
--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience

Ronnie
Even with the prompt enabled it still requires the user to be knowledgeable
of the application UAC is prompting about. Once elevation is allowed UAC
does not protect the user. Clicking allow becomes nothing more than an
annoying additional click which in many cases becomes automatic.
Additionally, the most common way a PC becomes infected is by downloading
something from the net and even with the UAC prompts disabled you still
receive a security warning when you attempt a download.

Personally, when I decide to run something I don't have a need to be asked
to confirm it. If I didn't want to run it I would not have clicked on it in
the first place.

The bottom line is UAC does no more than protect the user from himself, and
even that still requires the user to be knowledgeable.

"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote in
...
"Bob" wrote in message
...

All of that nonsense can be eliminated by running UAC in “quiet� mode.

This is a fallacy! If UAC cannot notify the user that a program is trying
to gain global access to the system, then it is effectively 'disabled'.
This so called 'quite mode' setting just changes a UAC registry setting to
'automatically elevate everything without prompting'. This means that when
you click to open a file, it is 'assumed' that you already know that the
file will have unrestricted access to your computer.

The main thing that UAC does is to detect when a program or application
tries to access restricted parts of the system or registry that requires
administrator privileges. When a program does this, UAC will prompt the
user for administrative elevation. Without this prompt, UAC cannot warn
the user, which means that it is effectively disabled.

Some people will tell you that using "quiet mode" will still let IE run in
protected mode, but this just isn't true. Without the UAC prompt, a
malicious file that runs from a website can run, without restrictions, and
silently.

Another issue is that with UAC prompt disabled, some legitimate procedures
will just silently fail to work properly, with no notification, if you are
logged on with a Standard User account, since the application cannot
notify you that administrative privileges are required.

Even the developer of the TweakUAC utility includes this statement about
his product.
"if you are an experienced user and have some understanding of how to
manage your Windows settings properly, you can safely use the quiet mode
of UAC." In my opinion, if you are an experienced user, the last thing you
would want to do is turn off the UAC notification.

If you 'are' an experienced user, then you would already know how to
temporarily bypass the UAC prompt to perform just about any procedure in
Vista, such as running programs from an elevated command prompt, or using
an elevated instance of windows explorer.

The last problem I have with this so-called 'quiet mode' is that it
dissuades developers from programming their applications to run in a least
user privilege environment.
--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience

"Bob" wrote in message . ..
Ronnie
Even with the prompt enabled it still requires the user to be
knowledgeable of the application UAC is prompting about. Once elevation is
allowed UAC does not protect the user. Clicking allow becomes nothing more
than an annoying additional click which in many cases becomes automatic.
Additionally, the most common way a PC becomes infected is by downloading
something from the net and even with the UAC prompts disabled you still
receive a security warning when you attempt a download.

Personally, when I decide to run something I don't have a need to be asked
to confirm it. If I didn't want to run it I would not have clicked on it
in the first place.

The bottom line is UAC does no more than protect the user from himself,
and even that still requires the user to be knowledgeable.

"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote ...
"Bob" wrote in message...

All of that nonsense can be eliminated by running UAC in "quiet" mode.

This is a fallacy! If UAC cannot notify the user that a program is trying
to gain global access to the system, then it is effectively 'disabled'.
This so called 'quite mode' setting just changes a UAC registry setting
to 'automatically elevate everything without prompting'. This means that
when you click to open a file, it is 'assumed' that you already know that
the file will have unrestricted access to your computer.

The main thing that UAC does is to detect when a program or application
tries to access restricted parts of the system or registry that requires
administrator privileges. When a program does this, UAC will prompt the
user for administrative elevation. Without this prompt, UAC cannot warn
the user, which means that it is effectively disabled.

Some people will tell you that using "quiet mode" will still let IE run
in protected mode, but this just isn't true. Without the UAC prompt, a
malicious file that runs from a website can run, without restrictions,
and silently.

Another issue is that with UAC prompt disabled, some legitimate
procedures will just silently fail to work properly, with no
notification, if you are logged on with a Standard User account, since
the application cannot notify you that administrative privileges are
required.

Even the developer of the TweakUAC utility includes this statement about
his product.
"if you are an experienced user and have some understanding of how to
manage your Windows settings properly, you can safely use the quiet mode
of UAC." In my opinion, if you are an experienced user, the last thing
you would want to do is turn off the UAC notification.

If you 'are' an experienced user, then you would already know how to
temporarily bypass the UAC prompt to perform just about any procedure in
Vista, such as running programs from an elevated command prompt, or using
an elevated instance of windows explorer.

The last problem I have with this so-called 'quiet mode' is that it
dissuades developers from programming their applications to run in a
least user privilege environment.


Sorry, Bob, but I agree with Ronnie. The so-called "quiet" mode is nothing
more than disabling the built-in warning system. UAC actually works.

Troubleshooting my nephew's pc over the weekend, set in "quiet" mode, I
found a worm and three everyday ordinary virus hits. Apparently, after
tweaking the UAC, the worm disabled the AV enough to allow a virus to
auto-install, three different times, in just under a month.

His excuse? Clicking the little box when he installed a couple games was too
annoying.

Bob

inline

"Bob" wrote in message
. ..
Ronnie
Even with the prompt enabled it still requires the user to be
knowledgeable of the application UAC is prompting about. Once elevation is
allowed UAC does not protect the user. Clicking allow becomes nothing more
than an annoying additional click which in many cases becomes automatic.

It it only annoying until you run into something unexpected. Right after
Vista was first released, we went through all of the debates about users
getting to the point where clicking on the prompt became an 'automatic'
response.

One user told us about a utility that he downloaded and installed and he got
the expected 'security warning' about the file not having a digital
signature. He clicked to run the file anyway and the utility installed. He
then got a message to 'click here' to configure your personal settings. He
then received this prompt.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...UACPrompt2.jpg

Without UAC, he never would have been aware of the second file being
installed, since he had already permitted the program to run. Needless to
say, he decided that he would leave UAC on.


Additionally, the most common way a PC becomes infected is by downloading
something from the net and even with the UAC prompts disabled you still
receive a security warning when you attempt a download.

Only in specific instances, such as an installation file that does not have
a digital signature attached. The security warning does nothing to protect
against 'drive-by' downloads that run automatically. Most of the smaller
software developers will not bother with a digital signature, simply because
it is time consuming and expensive for them.


Personally, when I decide to run something I don't have a need to be asked
to confirm it. If I didn't want to run it I would not have clicked on it
in the first place.

It's not about you deciding to run a program, it's about 'isolation', it's
about 'integrity levels', it's about what background actions the program
will take when you do run it. Have you ever wondered why an application,
that does nothing more than make images look better, needs full and
unrestricted access to every part of your computer?


The bottom line is UAC does no more than protect the user from himself,
and even that still requires the user to be knowledgeable.

This is the whole point of UAC. The only way that a malicious program can be
installed is if the user gets complacent and stops paying attention to what
they are doing.

When Vista is first installed, a user will typically see a ton of UAC
prompts as they install all of their software programs and utilities, but
these will gradually become more rare. Windows has to overcome almost twenty
years of being a 'push button' operating system before it will attain any
semblance of a 'secure' operating system. The education of users as well as
developers will take some time. UAC and other security 'hardening'
procedures are not going to 'go away'.

When the majority of developers see the benefits, and start following the
Microsoft developer guidelines for coding their programs and applications to
run in a 'least user privilege' environment, UAC will become a prompt that
is rarely seen. The vast majority of windows software should not even need
to initiate a UAC prompt.

Take a few minutes to read the following article. It will give you a better
understanding, and show you the underlying reasons and goals of UAC.

The Long-Term Impact of User Account Control:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/m.../cc137811.aspx


--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience




"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote in
...
"Bob" wrote in message
...

All of that nonsense can be eliminated by running UAC in “quiet� mode.

This is a fallacy! If UAC cannot notify the user that a program is trying
to gain global access to the system, then it is effectively 'disabled'.
This so called 'quite mode' setting just changes a UAC registry setting
to 'automatically elevate everything without prompting'. This means that
when you click to open a file, it is 'assumed' that you already know that
the file will have unrestricted access to your computer.

The main thing that UAC does is to detect when a program or application
tries to access restricted parts of the system or registry that requires
administrator privileges. When a program does this, UAC will prompt the
user for administrative elevation. Without this prompt, UAC cannot warn
the user, which means that it is effectively disabled.

Some people will tell you that using "quiet mode" will still let IE run
in protected mode, but this just isn't true. Without the UAC prompt, a
malicious file that runs from a website can run, without restrictions,
and silently.

Another issue is that with UAC prompt disabled, some legitimate
procedures will just silently fail to work properly, with no
notification, if you are logged on with a Standard User account, since
the application cannot notify you that administrative privileges are
required.

Even the developer of the TweakUAC utility includes this statement about
his product.
"if you are an experienced user and have some understanding of how to
manage your Windows settings properly, you can safely use the quiet mode
of UAC." In my opinion, if you are an experienced user, the last thing
you would want to do is turn off the UAC notification.

If you 'are' an experienced user, then you would already know how to
temporarily bypass the UAC prompt to perform just about any procedure in
Vista, such as running programs from an elevated command prompt, or using
an elevated instance of windows explorer.

The last problem I have with this so-called 'quiet mode' is that it
dissuades developers from programming their applications to run in a
least user privilege environment.
--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience

Ronnie

I had previously read the article.

The quote that stands out to me is "UAC does not, nor is it intended to,
stop malware"

In the example you give the user would have received a prompt even if UAC
was disabled providing he was running Windows Defender.
"If potentially harmful software tries to run or install itself on your
computer, Windows Defender notifies you and helps you choose how to take
action."

"Have you ever wondered why an application,
that does nothing more than make images look better, needs full and
unrestricted access to every part of your computer?"

I don't know why you say that. I run Photoshop Elements and afaik it doesn't
need unrestricted access to every part of my computer.

"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote in message
news
Bob

inline

"Bob" wrote in message
. ..
Ronnie
Even with the prompt enabled it still requires the user to be
knowledgeable of the application UAC is prompting about. Once elevation
is allowed UAC does not protect the user. Clicking allow becomes nothing
more than an annoying additional click which in many cases becomes
automatic.

It it only annoying until you run into something unexpected. Right after
Vista was first released, we went through all of the debates about users
getting to the point where clicking on the prompt became an 'automatic'
response.

One user told us about a utility that he downloaded and installed and he
got the expected 'security warning' about the file not having a digital
signature. He clicked to run the file anyway and the utility installed. He
then got a message to 'click here' to configure your personal settings. He
then received this prompt.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...UACPrompt2.jpg

Without UAC, he never would have been aware of the second file being
installed, since he had already permitted the program to run. Needless to
say, he decided that he would leave UAC on.


Additionally, the most common way a PC becomes infected is by downloading
something from the net and even with the UAC prompts disabled you still
receive a security warning when you attempt a download.

Only in specific instances, such as an installation file that does not
have a digital signature attached. The security warning does nothing to
protect against 'drive-by' downloads that run automatically. Most of the
smaller software developers will not bother with a digital signature,
simply because it is time consuming and expensive for them.


Personally, when I decide to run something I don't have a need to be
asked to confirm it. If I didn't want to run it I would not have clicked
on it in the first place.

It's not about you deciding to run a program, it's about 'isolation', it's
about 'integrity levels', it's about what background actions the program
will take when you do run it. Have you ever wondered why an application,
that does nothing more than make images look better, needs full and
unrestricted access to every part of your computer?


The bottom line is UAC does no more than protect the user from himself,
and even that still requires the user to be knowledgeable.

This is the whole point of UAC. The only way that a malicious program can
be installed is if the user gets complacent and stops paying attention to
what they are doing.

When Vista is first installed, a user will typically see a ton of UAC
prompts as they install all of their software programs and utilities, but
these will gradually become more rare. Windows has to overcome almost
twenty years of being a 'push button' operating system before it will
attain any semblance of a 'secure' operating system. The education of
users as well as developers will take some time. UAC and other security
'hardening' procedures are not going to 'go away'.

When the majority of developers see the benefits, and start following the
Microsoft developer guidelines for coding their programs and applications
to run in a 'least user privilege' environment, UAC will become a prompt
that is rarely seen. The vast majority of windows software should not even
need to initiate a UAC prompt.

Take a few minutes to read the following article. It will give you a
better understanding, and show you the underlying reasons and goals of
UAC.

The Long-Term Impact of User Account Control:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/m.../cc137811.aspx


--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience




"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote in
...
"Bob" wrote in message
...

All of that nonsense can be eliminated by running UAC in “quiet� mode.

This is a fallacy! If UAC cannot notify the user that a program is
trying to gain global access to the system, then it is effectively
'disabled'. This so called 'quite mode' setting just changes a UAC
registry setting to 'automatically elevate everything without
prompting'. This means that when you click to open a file, it is
'assumed' that you already know that the file will have unrestricted
access to your computer.

The main thing that UAC does is to detect when a program or application
tries to access restricted parts of the system or registry that requires
administrator privileges. When a program does this, UAC will prompt the
user for administrative elevation. Without this prompt, UAC cannot warn
the user, which means that it is effectively disabled.

Some people will tell you that using "quiet mode" will still let IE run
in protected mode, but this just isn't true. Without the UAC prompt, a
malicious file that runs from a website can run, without restrictions,
and silently.

Another issue is that with UAC prompt disabled, some legitimate
procedures will just silently fail to work properly, with no
notification, if you are logged on with a Standard User account, since
the application cannot notify you that administrative privileges are
required.

Even the developer of the TweakUAC utility includes this statement about
his product.
"if you are an experienced user and have some understanding of how to
manage your Windows settings properly, you can safely use the quiet mode
of UAC." In my opinion, if you are an experienced user, the last thing
you would want to do is turn off the UAC notification.

If you 'are' an experienced user, then you would already know how to
temporarily bypass the UAC prompt to perform just about any procedure in
Vista, such as running programs from an elevated command prompt, or
using an elevated instance of windows explorer.

The last problem I have with this so-called 'quiet mode' is that it
dissuades developers from programming their applications to run in a
least user privilege environment.
--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience

"Bob" wrote in message
. ..
Ronnie

I had previously read the article.

The quote that stands out to me is "UAC does not, nor is it intended to,
stop malware"

That's correct, the primary job for UAC is to allow a user to run with a
Standard User (Limited User in XP) token and still have the capability to
elevate a program or procedure with administrator privileges on demand.
However, as a side benefit, if you get an unexpected UAC prompt, this can
warn you that a process you did not start is trying to access a restricted
part of the OS.

In the example you give the user would have received a prompt even if UAC
was disabled providing he was running Windows Defender.
"If potentially harmful software tries to run or install itself on your
computer, Windows Defender notifies you and helps you choose how to take
action."

Windows Defender can only stop 'known' malware. It checks a database that is
updated often when a new threat is discovered. Defender is not an anti-virus
program.

Neither Defender nor UAC are designed to replace a good anti-virus program.

"Have you ever wondered why an application,
that does nothing more than make images look better, needs full and
unrestricted access to every part of your computer?"

I don't know why you say that. I run Photoshop Elements and afaik it
doesn't need unrestricted access to every part of my computer.

This is because photoshop elements is probably designed to work properly, or
the part of the program that requires admin privileges has been Virtualized
by UAC. I have even heard of word processors that get a UAC prompt when they
are started.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience

Exactly...and we both know it's best to have at least two anti-spyware
programs in addition to an AV program.

" Windows Defender can only stop 'known' malware. It checks a database that
is updated often when a new threat is discovered. Defender is not an
anti-virus program.
Neither Defender nor UAC are designed to replace a good anti-virus program."



"Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote in message
...
"Bob" wrote in message
. ..
Ronnie

I had previously read the article.

The quote that stands out to me is "UAC does not, nor is it intended to,
stop malware"

That's correct, the primary job for UAC is to allow a user to run with a
Standard User (Limited User in XP) token and still have the capability to
elevate a program or procedure with administrator privileges on demand.
However, as a side benefit, if you get an unexpected UAC prompt, this can
warn you that a process you did not start is trying to access a restricted
part of the OS.

In the example you give the user would have received a prompt even if UAC
was disabled providing he was running Windows Defender.
"If potentially harmful software tries to run or install itself on your
computer, Windows Defender notifies you and helps you choose how to take
action."

Windows Defender can only stop 'known' malware. It checks a database that
is updated often when a new threat is discovered. Defender is not an
anti-virus program.

Neither Defender nor UAC are designed to replace a good anti-virus
program.

"Have you ever wondered why an application,
that does nothing more than make images look better, needs full and
unrestricted access to every part of your computer?"

I don't know why you say that. I run Photoshop Elements and afaik it
doesn't need unrestricted access to every part of my computer.

This is because photoshop elements is probably designed to work properly,
or the part of the program that requires admin privileges has been
Virtualized by UAC. I have even heard of word processors that get a UAC
prompt when they are started.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience