If it is not obvious by now... We must all realize that Microsoft has it's
own direction. We are pretty much not in control of our own computers, nor
will we be ever. The issues I have seen, and what you all are seeing is the
results of many things. All of which I will not be able to address.

1st You really need to have only Vista machines.. cures all problems..

2nd You really need to have a Server to perform DNS and DHCP, even all of us
home users. Gee I wonder why there is now even a Home version of Server.

3rd We really all need to be MSCE's if we are going to have more than one
computer on the network.

4th We need artificial inteligence to figure out what the wizards are doing.

If all else fails refer back to 1,2,3,4

NetRider wrote:

If it is not obvious by now... We must all realize that Microsoft has it's
own direction. We are pretty much not in control of our own computers, nor
will we be ever. The issues I have seen, and what you all are seeing is
the results of many things. All of which I will not be able to address.

(snip rant)

This is just silly. First of all, there is no requirement that a person
needs to know anything about the highly technical area of computers except
the basics of how to use them and how to stay safe while using them. I
don't know why you think you should automatically know this stuff when you
wouldn't hesitate to call a plumber, take your car to the mechanic, have an
electrician out to your house, go to a doctor for a health problem, etc.
This isn't any different.

Computers are extremely complex and powerful machines. Your expectations are
unrealistic and have nothing to do with Microsoft. I'd like to see you try
and set up a Linux network. You wouldn't be able to blame Microsoft for
your inability to do that, of course.

If you need help setting up your network, get help instead of whinging about
it here. Someone who knows how to set up a network can do it in a very few
minutes.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
Don't Panic!

"NetRider" wrote in message
...
If it is not obvious by now... We must all realize that Microsoft has
it's
own direction. We are pretty much not in control of our own computers,
nor
will we be ever. The issues I have seen, and what you all are seeing
is the
results of many things. All of which I will not be able to address.

1st You really need to have only Vista machines.. cures all
problems..

2nd You really need to have a Server to perform DNS and DHCP, even all
of us
home users. Gee I wonder why there is now even a Home version of
Server.

3rd We really all need to be MSCE's if we are going to have more than
one
computer on the network.

4th We need artificial inteligence to figure out what the wizards are
doing.

If all else fails refer back to 1,2,3,4


Microsoft controls just as much as I am happy to let them control, it's
really more service than control.

1. Happily networking XP , two Vistas, Network Disk and router at home
here, and previously with W98 in the mix.

2. A router will provide a DHCP service, though a Home Server would be
interesting.

3. I just read lots, some I even understood.

4. I prefer to set things up myself then I know what I've done, but
being aged I make lots of notes - artificial memory but just human
intelligence.

Regards and keep at it
Tom

In message NetRider
wrote:

If it is not obvious by now... We must all realize that Microsoft has it's
own direction. We are pretty much not in control of our own computers, nor
will we be ever.

If you're not happy with the level of control you have, write your own
OS and be in control then.

The issues I have seen, and what you all are seeing is the
results of many things. All of which I will not be able to address.

1st You really need to have only Vista machines.. cures all problems..

That's one approach. We've got 2000, 2003, XP and Vista playing nicely
here, and the trial rollout of a 2008 box went well enough in the lab
that we're working on going live later this month.

2nd You really need to have a Server to perform DNS and DHCP, even all of us
home users. Gee I wonder why there is now even a Home version of Server.

Imagine that, a network needs network services. Weird.

3rd We really all need to be MSCE's if we are going to have more than one
computer on the network.

Not at all -- Even my parents managed to plug multiple machines into a
$22 router and get working in a mixed XP and Vista environment without
any form of server.

4th We need artificial inteligence to figure out what the wizards are doing.

I'd suggest using real intelligence instead, but the artificial type
might work in a pinch.

If all else fails refer back to 1,2,3,4

The interesting thing here is that you seem to want more control, but
you can't even manage to get things working in areas where Microsoft
does give you control -- It sounds to me like you'd be much happier if
everything just worked out of the box and you didn't have access to any
settings or options that might break things.

Networking isn't a simple concept, it does take some understanding
(usually gained through experience or education) to get things working.
If you'd care to understand just how easy Microsoft makes it, go find
some DOS machines from the 90s and set up a LAN.

What you haven't said is what exactly you're trying to accomplish.
"Networkin'" is a wide range of possible topics, if you can successfully
ping then you have a working network, although potentially not a very
functional one -- The devil is in the details.

Below is how to Network XP and Vista.
Other people understand it, and have no problems!

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l.../bb727037.aspx

Have a read of the above link re Vista File and Printer Sharing.

Permissions/Share info is there as well.

If using Norton, McAfee, Trend Micro I.S., make sure file and printer
sharing is enabled in THEIR firewall (or LAN allowed, depending on how their
Exceptions are worded in their Firewall)

1st thing to do is make sure that the Workgroup Name of ALL the computers is
the SAME.

In Vista Network and Sharing:

Network Discovery: ON (So it can see the other computers)

Network set to Private (Public is for hotspots, airports, etc)

File Sharing: ON

Public Folder Sharing: ON (Vista’s Public Folder is the same as XP’s Shared
Docs)

Password Protected: OFF (unless you want to set up identical usernames and
passwords (passwords can be different) on ALL computers in your Network) If
you have it ON, you will be asked for a username and password when you try to
access a Vista computer from an XP computer, or a Vista computer.

Also, run the XP’s Home or Small Office Network File and Printer Sharing
Wizard to include Vista in your “New� Network, even if you had an XP Network
set up prior to adding a Vista computer to it(redoing the Wizard seems to
work for XP machines!).

In “My Network Places�: “Set up a Home or Small Office Network�
OR under Accessories Communications Network Setup Wizard Allow File
and Printer Sharing.

--
Mick Murphy - Qld - Australia


"NetRider" wrote:

If it is not obvious by now... We must all realize that Microsoft has it's
own direction. We are pretty much not in control of our own computers, nor
will we be ever. The issues I have seen, and what you all are seeing is the
results of many things. All of which I will not be able to address.

1st You really need to have only Vista machines.. cures all problems..

2nd You really need to have a Server to perform DNS and DHCP, even all of us
home users. Gee I wonder why there is now even a Home version of Server.

3rd We really all need to be MSCE's if we are going to have more than one
computer on the network.

4th We need artificial inteligence to figure out what the wizards are doing.

If all else fails refer back to 1,2,3,4

Ok so like.. I did get several replys.. But I am not looking for a fix, I am
just pointing out how complex it all is, and how it can get broke so easy..
And who are you going to call...? If you have a plumbing problem you call a
plumber ?? Whats that all about? If we just called someone to come over and
fix the problem, then why are we/you all going to newsgroups to sort it out
and try to get it fixed...? The deal is this... When the OS is broke, there
is no make it like I used to have it, or can't you just undo whatever it is
that is broken. It is very complex, but on the same token, it can get broken
very easy. If the wind blows your hair out of place you can just re-comb it.
If your Windows get messed up, It is a nightmere most of the time.

"NetRider" wrote:

If it is not obvious by now... We must all realize that Microsoft has it's
own direction. We are pretty much not in control of our own computers, nor
will we be ever. The issues I have seen, and what you all are seeing is the
results of many things. All of which I will not be able to address.

1st You really need to have only Vista machines.. cures all problems..

2nd You really need to have a Server to perform DNS and DHCP, even all of us
home users. Gee I wonder why there is now even a Home version of Server.

3rd We really all need to be MSCE's if we are going to have more than one
computer on the network.

4th We need artificial inteligence to figure out what the wizards are doing.

If all else fails refer back to 1,2,3,4

NetRider;733245 Wrote:
If it is not obvious by now... We must all realize that Microsoft has
it's
own direction. We are pretty much not in control of our own computers,
nor
will we be ever. The issues I have seen, and what you all are seeing
is the
results of many things. All of which I will not be able to address.This is as retarded a post as you could possibly make. To say that you
are not in control of your computer, which you turn on with your own
finger on the button, run things by your own will through input devices,
and connect at your own will to the world wide web... is really quite
ridiculous
1st You really need to have only Vista machines.. cures all problems..
No one is forcing you do do anything against your will or buy anything
you do not wish to buy. I network Vista computers with XP, XP with
Linux, Vista with Linux. I share network resources between multiple
operating systems with issue I can't quickly resolve being few to none
2nd You really need to have a Server to perform DNS and DHCP, even all
of us
home users. Gee I wonder why there is now even a Home version of
Server.
every internet connection sharing router that I have ever used performs
DHCP and DNS functions just fine. I doubt that most users setting up a
home server are going to install all the routing and remote access and
business server functions it may include. The main purpose for Home
Server is to meet the growing demands for media focused home networks,
or what has been commonly termed the "digital home". To have a powerful
enough computer tucked away in a closet so that the front-end computer
can be made smaller, stay cooler, and become much more efficient by
taking much of the load off of it (housing library contents, etc). This
also enhances sharing and media access by allowing access from any
number of PCs, as well as from remote locations

3rd We really all need to be MSCE's if we are going to have more than
one
computer on the network.

The rest of us are getting along just fine. I work through my own
issues and have never felt inadequate because I lack certification or
papers.

4th We need artificial inteligence to figure out what the wizards are
doing.
Just try adding a Linux box to the mix on your network... if this is
your attitude you'd never make it. Chances are if it's a wizard, it has
dialog boxes that tell you exactly what it's doing.

If all else fails refer back to 1,2,3,4

It's hard to tell if this is a rant against MS, or Vista, or if the
author just had a bad day getting two computers to share files. In any
case, I felt like I was stooping pretty low to even respond to this, as
meaningless as the original post was.


--
bad_the_ba

In message NetRider
wrote:

Ok so like.. I did get several replys.. But I am not looking for a fix, I am
just pointing out how complex it all is, and how it can get broke so easy..

Set it up once, don't touch it.

And who are you going to call...?

Any local IT consultant.

If you have a plumbing problem you call a
plumber ?? Whats that all about?

Pointing out that most people don't attempt to fix their own plumbing.
If you don't know how to get a complex job done, call an expert.

If we just called someone to come over and
fix the problem, then why are we/you all going to newsgroups to sort it out
and try to get it fixed...?

You didn't post looking for help, you posted a rant.

The deal is this... When the OS is broke, there
is no make it like I used to have it, or can't you just undo whatever it is
that is broken.

I don't have an undo button on my water heater either, which is why when
it starts leaking, I shut off the water and call the plumber rather then
poking at the pipes.

It is very complex, but on the same token, it can get broken
very easy.

Only if you make changes. Like with plumbing, if you don't know what
you're doing, you shouldn't go mucking around with the pipes. Or tubes.

If the wind blows your hair out of place you can just re-comb it.
If your Windows get messed up, It is a nightmere most of the time.

Not if you know what you're doing.