I think there is confusion here between OEM Vendor supplied restore to
factory shipping configuration "Recovery Disk(s)" which would be better off
being called Restore or Rebuild disks and a "Recovery disk" available for
the OS which might better off being called a Repair Disk.

The following links may help in sorting out the confusion.

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...scription.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windo...ns-51027.shtml

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Malke chimed in--

"This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used."

It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people I've
helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually like to
see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the settings
and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP groups, and
on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces of crap and
not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get XP, Vista, or
Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings intact.

Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to make
a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless (except
for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being offered.
Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up repair in
Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near their
expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing of people
who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then can't fix
Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM partners not to
ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they will ship a Vista
DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the Round Rockers of
this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD from Roundrock Dell.

It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only difference
is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have before to them
native to the OS. This is in response to many of us saying to many at
Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme crap, and the majority of
times, they are worthless.

Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of times.

The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well wheel
that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."

You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and it
is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.

CH

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same page
here.

There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience



"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
Malke chimed in--

"This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used."

It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people I've
helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually like
to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
intact.

Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
(except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near their
expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing of
people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then can't
fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM partners not
to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they will ship a
Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the Round
Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD from
Roundrock Dell.

It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only difference
is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have before to them
native to the OS. This is in response to many of us saying to many at
Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme crap, and the majority
of times, they are worthless.

Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
times.

The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well wheel
that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."

You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.

CH

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

The bottom line is that you need the code on the OS on a disc to maximize
your options of repairing Vista. Perhaps with some cosmic justification
along have come the torrents, and now if little Suzie at Iowa State
complains to you that her OEM recovery disc does not work, and she did not
back up in anyway what so ever, and she has a take home final that means her
grade in the course, you can get little Suzie fixed. In my experience
Little Suzie cannot run around on a deadline procuring said DVD, and doesn't
have $300 bucks or so to purchase one. But little Suzie can be empowered to
fix her OS successfully, and go on to complete her final exam, via a
phenomenon called a "torrent" where with a couple mouse clicks little Suzie
can procure a Vista Ultimate, easily burn it to an iso with a free and
formidiable burning program, and live relatively happily ever after
goshdarnit.

Little Suzie can see the torrent from where she sits, goshdarnit.

According to the aforementioned links by Curious, MSFT did not "do the
right thing" during Vista according to PC World's editor. A lot of people
didn't buy Vista. Now they're spending hundreds of millions with a new ad
campaign dubbed "recessionista chic with ole Lauren, who is lookin' for a
laptop on a budget."

http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/165113.asp

In this particular link you proffered, it seems that it is not MSFT that
offered the disc but Neosmart, because MSFT withdrew their offer of anything
on a disc viable that fixesVista without the purchase of a genuine Vista
DVD. There have of course always been the F8 Windows Advanced Options menu
and most of us make that available when we suggest fixes.

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...scription.html

"Editor's Review of Vista Recovery Disc

It looked like Microsoft was finally going to do the right thing. Beta
versions of Vista SP1 came with a modern equivalent of the old Windows Boot
Floppy--a Start Menu option called "Create a Recovery Disc" that burned a
Windows PE-based emergency CD. Alas, Microsoft removed that feature before
SP1 shipped, but not before NeoSmart turned the disc into an .iso file and
made it available on their site.

Running on the Vista version of Windows PE, the Recovery Disc is basically a
Vista installation disc minus the install files. It even has an "Install
now" button that asks for a Product Key before failing. You're better off
clicking the Repair your computer button. Among its Vista-only options are a
tool for diagnosing and fixing startup problems, a version of System Restore
that uses restore points on the hard drive, the restore portions of Vista's
backup program, and a memory diagnostic tool.


Note: This link takes you to an external Web site, where you can download
the latest version of the software.

--Lincoln Spector

Your second link references the Windows Advanced Options menu which is of
course, not a disc, has always been available, and in thousands of fixes,
works less well with less efficacy although it can be helpful, particularly
if the user increases their odds of success by trying all of the Safe Modes
their plus Last Known Good Configuration.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windo...ns-51027.shtml

CH

"Curious" wrote in message
...
I think there is confusion here between OEM Vendor supplied restore to
factory shipping configuration "Recovery Disk(s)" which would be better
off being called Restore or Rebuild disks and a "Recovery disk" available
for the OS which might better off being called a Repair Disk.

The following links may help in sorting out the confusion.

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/fil...scription.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windo...ns-51027.shtml

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Richard--

I tried to make the point by quoting Curious's links. Again, the maximal
chances to fix a no boot Vista or a number of broken components that would
move many rational people to consider formatting the box is an OPERATING
SYSTEM DISC.

I've made it many times. I'll make it again.

Microsoft (who has made me smile tonight with the statement on Mary Jo
Foley's site that they will "allow" Windows 7 users to downgrade it to
Windows XP (who the hell would want to do that is a great question)

[Microsoft will allow Windows 7 users to downgrade to XP
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2456]

has entered into contracts for years with the OEM PC manufacturers with whom
they are for hundreds of reasons we both understand intimately involved.
Although Mac OS X+ can be made to run reasonably well on a PC with a
modified X-86 kernel for Leopard, very few people do that relative to people
who run the Windows OS when they choose to buy a pc on said pc. In a better
world, I would like to see a choice for little Suzie end user to run Leopard
or Windows 7, 8, 9, 10 and on on her pc but I don't expect to see that soon.

Your efficacy or success at repairing either

a) a no boot Vista that won't boot because of a software cause (not a pure
hardware cause and a significant enough number of times the cause can be
both from hardware and software reasons)

b) A Vista with enough broken components to force anyone to think about
formatting the box, or at least the drive said Vista is on.

Both of these situations are best repaired if someone has a genuine
Microsoft DVD purchased at a legitimate outlet. They are afforded the use
of the Bootrec options as well as the full panoply of Startup Repair's
options available from that DVD.

This is true even if they follow the Win RE team's MSDN blog posted
directions to put Win RE's features on their hard drive.

How to install Windows RE on the hard disk
http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/...hard-disk.aspx

When I refer to a recovery disc, I refer to the relatively worthless and
ineffectual discs that say HP ships with their OEM boxes. They rarely work
in my experience.

I pasted what in fact the links that Curious proffered said.

Many people who are savvy enough and know they have paid hundreds if not
thousands of dollars of hard earned money to buy a pc and did not receive a
Vista DVD (last time I checked MSFT has launched a couple hundred million
dollar plus ad campaign with "Lauren" among others to buy a pc and not a
Mac). According to http://www.the record.com

"To shoot the ads, Microsoft's agency, Crispin Porter + Bogusky, recruited
unwitting subjects by posing as a market research firm studying laptop
purchasing decisions.

It picked 10 people who answered a call for volunteers on Craigslist and
other websites and sent them out with a camera crew and budgets ranging from
US$700 to $2,000. If they found a computer that fit their criteria, they
could keep it.

In the first 60-second spot, a red-haired recent college grad named Lauren
is on the hunt for a speedy laptop with a 17-inch screen and a "comfortable"
keyboard, all for less than $1,000. She strides into an Apple store; then,
the scene jumps to her walking out empty-handed, telling the camera that the
only laptop in her price range has a 13-inch screen.

Back in the car, she sighs and says, "I'm just not cool enough to be a Mac
person."

An end user's chance to fix their no boot or systemically broken OS whether
it is XP, Vista, or Windows 7, is to procure a genuine OS DVD rather than a
"recovery disc" of any sort.

Dell recognized this when they promised on their Direct to Dell site to ship
one with any new Dell PC after Vista RTM'd to the public.

http://direct2dell.org/one2one/archi...0/17/3132.aspx

"Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating system
reinstallation CD when they need it. When ordering a new machine, all
consumers and corporate customers can opt for the Windows CD for around $10.
Additionally, since July 2004, most new PCs (Dell gaming systems all ship
with the OS CD)come pre-loaded with a disk partition that contains PC
Restore, an applcation that allows users to reinstall system software
quickly. See these instructions for how to use PC Restore to reinstall the
operating system and Dell factory-installed applications in about 10
minutes.

Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell employees
for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I wrote this,
the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for $0. I mis-read
the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also, though this been in
the works for some time before now, it's now official. For U.S. consumer
and small business customers, all systems will now ship with an operating
system disc. This change will take effect in Europe by later next month. In
Asia, things are unchanged-we've always shipped OS discs with systems
there."


CH

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
page here.

There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience



"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
Malke chimed in--

"This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used."

It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
intact.

Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
(except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
from Roundrock Dell.

It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.

Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
times.

The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."

You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.

CH

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Sorry Malke. Didn't mean to reply to you - but you knew that already! (-:

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience


"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
page here.

There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience



"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
Malke chimed in--

"This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used."

It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
intact.

Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
(except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
from Roundrock Dell.

It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.

Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
times.

The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."

You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.

CH

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Richard--

Again I was very explicit. I've been referring to OEM recovery discs which
is made clear when I talk about recovery discs from 300 OEM partners (I'm
not sure how more explicit I could be). This point of view was advanced at
Redmond and imposed on the OEM partners by the OEM VP who in the recent past
was Scott Di Valerio, (MSFT 11/05-10/07) who is no longer with MSFT, as of
10/07.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/e...v/default.mspx

Currently that position is held by Steve Guggenheimer.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/guggenheimer/

I have had Acronis for years, and although it is a decent program, the web
is full of experienced Acronis TI users who can't reproduce the images and
backups from the .tibs they thought they made from Acronis' proprietary
compression folders as well as a number of permutations and combinations of
other problems just as they have trouble recovering with Vista Backups and
One Care backups as well.

The most effective backup by far is to backup/burn the actual files or
folders to a DVD. Even backups to external HDs can be corrupted on
occasion. When they do that, they aren't encumbered and sometimes defeated
by Acronis' .tib or compression convention which is the Acronis True Image
Disc Image.

My point again was that for years MSFT and the OEMs have partnered to make
certain that the OS CD (and with Vista and Windows 7 it is now a DVD) *were
not shipped with a new PC. My point was also that in Windows 7, there has
been come concession to this by making some of the Win RE components
available on the HD when the OS is installed, although not the full panoply
they get on the Win 7 DVD.

Like all of us who try to help here, I want these end users to have the
maximal chance of recovery of their OS files, folders, programs and settings
so that they can get on with their work or play using their boxes.

Best,

CH

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
page here.

There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience



"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
Malke chimed in--

"This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used."

It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
intact.

Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
(except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
from Roundrock Dell.

It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.

Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
times.

The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."

You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.

CH

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

CH- thanks for all that info. AS a follow up to my situation, she found
her os disc. So, I loaded vista up no problem ran through the 100 or so
updates and gave it back to her, so she could load whatever it is she
needs (instant messenger...etc)
thanks again


--
unomas

Richard--

This makes the problem of the best recovery disc moot, since MSFT is
providing the way to make a Startup Repair or Recovery Disc since Vista SP1
although it's not often discussed here or well advertised by MSFT, nor is it
in Vista Help, on the same MSFT Vista Help site,, or anywhere in a search
of the MSKBs at the http://support.microsoft.com website at this moment.

What you might not have realized (I haven't seen you post on it in years),
is that the argument about OEM recovery discs versus a Windows Vista or
Windows 7 soon DVD has been rendered completely moot because anyone can make
a disc for free with all of the Startup Repair Options from Microsoft if
they don't have a DVD, and when in most cases in my experience the recovery
discs don't work. BTW, as recently as 4/11/09 there is a post where the
recovery disc did not work, and there are hundreds of posts stating the same
thing on this group and the Vista general group and there will be hundreds
more in the future. This is the solution:

**How to Make Vista Recovery Disc from MSFT with Startup Repair When You
Don't Have a Vista DVD from a PC with Windows Vista SP1 or Newer**:

[Note: This comes from Microsoft. It is available in Vista with Service
Pack 1 or Service Pack 2 and in Windows 7 when released. This gives you the
same Startup Repair Options from Microsoft *Legally* that you would get on
by purchasing a new Vista (or when it RTMs Windows 7 DVD]:

1) It's best to make this "recovery disc" which gives you access to
Vista/Win 7's Startup Repair when Vista or Windows 7 is running well, and
you aren't in trouble. But when many of you read this, you will be in
trouble and this is the way to get out. This will help you access Startup
Repair to repair a Won't Boot Vista or Windows 7 when the cause is a
software cause without a hardware component in the equation and this
includes a corrupt driver.

You can do this on a computer running Windows Vista SP1, Windows Vista SP2,
or Windows 7. Click StartProgramsMaintenanceCreate a System Repair Disc
or simply type "maintenance" into the search box above the Start button.

2) If you have a Vista or Windows 7 Won't Boot situation, and you didn't
make this disc in advance--no problem. Either use another pc with Vista SP1
or Newer or borrow a friend's and follow the directions in #1 above.

3) If your friend has an operating system prior to Vista SP1, but has an
internet connection on a device that can download files (a computer is
best), simply download the .iso from Neowin's site, burn the .iso,and you
will have a Vista or Windows 7 Recovery disc with the full panoply of
repair options, including the "bootrec switches" from the command prompt
there.

This is a screenshot of the two ways to do this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16

This is the link from Neosmart's website to download and burn the .iso that
allows you to do the same thing as the Maintenance listing on the Vista SP1
and later Programs menu.

Windows Vista Recovery Disc (Vista Startup Repair .iso Download)
http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/window...disc-download/

Anyone concerned with the legality should not be. This is an option that
Microsoft wisely elected to put into its operating system with Vista Service
Pack 1, and included in Service Pack 2 and Windows 7.

Unfortunately, as of 4/11/09 Microsoft has written nothing in Windows Vista
Help about this option, and it is a great feature that is not well known.
They have a decent explanation of Startup Repair, but no mention as to how
to access it if you don't have a Vista DVD as shown at this link:

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...f3f351033.mspx

This solves the problem of the 300 + OEM partners and Microsoft not
shipping a Vista DVD with the purchase of a new computer. This has long
been needed, and MSFT should be commended for making it available. I
haven't seen it mentioned on any of the MSFT newsgroups, though it might
have been but I have seen the complaint hundreds if not thousands of times
in the last several years including on the XP groups that the person stuck
with an XP or a Vista Won't boot blue screen does not have an XP or Vista
DVD. This remedies that problem.

In addition, as a second choice (I would definitely try this first), you can
use the F8 key to boot to the Windows Advanced Options menu and try those to
access System Restore from the Safe Mode options there, or Last Known Good
Configuration. Startup Repair and the Boot Rec switches are a considerable
improvement as to efficacy over the F8 (Windows Advanced) options and the
now retired Recovery Console.

F8 Key Reaches the Windows Advanced Options Menu (One might work when
another does not):
http://www.online-tech-tips.com/wp-c...-safe-mode.png

Should you choose to use Safe Mode with Command Prompt, you'll need to type
the command for System Restore which is:

At the command prompt, type %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe, and
then press ENTER.

Good luck,

CH





"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
What exactly do you consider a recovery disk? Lets all get on the same
page here.

There is a recovery disk (a disk image) you can make yourself by using
TrueImage or some other such program. Then there are recovery disks that
come with a new computer. Which are you talking about?

--

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience



"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
Malke chimed in--

"This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used."

It has been *my experience and the experiences of thousands of people
I've helped fixed No Boot Windows in person,and my collegues who actually
like to see the broken no boot Windows up and running again* with all the
settings and apps intact, and on these groups, for five years on the XP
groups, and on Vista that so-called "recovery discs" are worthless pieces
of crap and not worth a nano-second of anyone's time if they want to get
XP, Vista, or Windows 7 up and running again with all their settings
intact.

Windows 7 is very relevant, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up to
make a point of a sea change after MSFT offered the relatively worthless
(except for doing a chkdsk /r) Recovery console which is no longer being
offered. Why do you think they are offering intrinsic native Start-Up
repair in Windows 7? It's because they could not sell Vista to near
their expectations and many of us complained bitterly about the screwing
of people who buy OEM boxes at huge markups for the most part and then
can't fix Windows because of a deal between MSFT and their 300+OEM
partners not to ship Vista DVDs. Dell has claimed during Vista that they
will ship a Vista DVD although I've seen customers who have to remind the
Round Rockers of this published claim in order to extract a Vista DVD
from Roundrock Dell.

It uses the same repair mechanisms exactly as Vista. The only
difference is that without a DVD you have access that you did not have
before to them native to the OS. This is in response to many of us
saying to many at Redmond, that Recovery Discs are pieces of extreme
crap, and the majority of times, they are worthless.

Further, I've seen people that run tech support or are developers on the
teams that make the so-called "recovery discs" admit this hundreds of
times.

The bell shaped curve of people who use recovery discs might as well
wheel that OS to the morgue without passing "Go."

You're always better off using the OS DVD in XP, Vista and Windows 7 and
it is appropriate to educate as many people as possible who consider it
important to fix their broken, or broken and not booting OS quickly and
efficiently be it XP, Vista, or the very relevant Windows 7.

CH

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly
as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials
are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works,
you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands
of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ

Malke--

What you might not have realized (I haven't seen you post on it in years),
is that the argument about OEM recovery discs versus a Windows Vista or
Windows 7 soon DVD has been rendered completely moot because anyone can make
a disc for free with all of the Startup Repair Options from Microsoft if
they don't have a DVD, and when in most cases in my experience the recovery
discs don't work. BTW, as recently as 4/11/09 there is a post where the
recovery disc did not work, and there are hundreds of posts stating the same
thing on this group and the Vista general group and there will be hundreds
more in the future. This is the solution:

**How to Make Vista Recovery Disc from MSFT with Startup Repair When You
Don't Have a Vista DVD from a PC with Windows Vista SP1 or Newer**:

[Note: This comes from Microsoft. It is available in Vista with Service
Pack 1 or Service Pack 2 and in Windows 7 when released. This gives you the
same Startup Repair Options from Microsoft *Legally* that you would get on
by purchasing a new Vista (or when it RTMs Windows 7 DVD]:

1) It's best to make this "recovery disc" which gives you access to
Vista/Win 7's Startup Repair when Vista or Windows 7 is running well, and
you aren't in trouble. But when many of you read this, you will be in
trouble and this is the way to get out. This will help you access Startup
Repair to repair a Won't Boot Vista or Windows 7 when the cause is a
software cause without a hardware component in the equation and this
includes a corrupt driver.

You can do this on a computer running Windows Vista SP1, Windows Vista SP2,
or Windows 7. Click StartProgramsMaintenanceCreate a System Repair Disc
or simply type "maintenance" into the search box above the Start button.

2) If you have a Vista or Windows 7 Won't Boot situation, and you didn't
make this disc in advance--no problem. Either use another pc with Vista SP1
or Newer or borrow a friend's and follow the directions in #1 above.

3) If your friend has an operating system prior to Vista SP1, but has an
internet connection on a device that can download files (a computer is
best), simply download the .iso from Neowin's site, burn the .iso,and you
will have a Vista or Windows 7 Recovery disc with the full panoply of
repair options, including the "bootrec switches" from the command prompt
there.

This is a screenshot of the two ways to do this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16

This is the link from Neosmart's website to download and burn the .iso that
allows you to do the same thing as the Maintenance listing on the Vista SP1
and later Programs menu.

Windows Vista Recovery Disc (Vista Startup Repair .iso Download)
http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/window...disc-download/

Anyone concerned with the legality should not be. This is an option that
Microsoft wisely elected to put into its operating system with Vista Service
Pack 1, and included in Service Pack 2 and Windows 7.

Unfortunately, as of 4/11/09 Microsoft has written nothing in Windows Vista
Help about this option, and it is a great feature that is not well known.
They have a decent explanation of Startup Repair, but no mention as to how
to access it if you don't have a Vista DVD as shown at this link:

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Win...f3f351033.mspx

This solves the problem of the 300 + OEM partners and Microsoft not
shipping a Vista DVD with the purchase of a new computer. This has long
been needed, and MSFT should be commended for making it available. I
haven't seen it mentioned on any of the MSFT newsgroups, though it might
have been but I have seen the complaint hundreds if not thousands of times
in the last several years including on the XP groups that the person stuck
with an XP or a Vista Won't boot blue screen does not have an XP or Vista
DVD. This remedies that problem.

In addition, as a second choice (I would definitely try this first), you can
use the F8 key to boot to the Windows Advanced Options menu and try those to
access System Restore from the Safe Mode options there, or Last Known Good
Configuration. Startup Repair and the Boot Rec switches are a considerable
improvement as to efficacy over the F8 (Windows Advanced) options and the
now retired Recovery Console.

F8 Key Reaches the Windows Advanced Options Menu (One might work when
another does not)
http://www.online-tech-tips.com/wp-c...-safe-mode.png

Should you choose to use Safe Mode with Command Prompt, you'll need to type
the command for System Restore which is:

At the command prompt, type %systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exe, and
then press ENTER.

Good luck,

CH







"Malke" wrote in message
...
Chad Harris wrote:

Unomas--

It isn't that the Recovery disc "corrupted." Let me say it as plainly as
I can.

If you do a double blind multicentered study, the way medical trials are
often done, the resut is that OEM recovery discs do not work. MSFT has
known this for 15 years and so have their OEM partners. When they name
them
recovery discs, they are pushing a myth. When a recovery disc works, you
are extremely lucky. In general, the concept of a recovery disc for
actual efficacy at repairing is a cruel joke that has been promulgated
for
years.

(snip)

This has not been my experience nor that of my colleagues in doing many
hundreds of restore-to-factory-condition jobs on many different brands of
computers. The recovery disks work fine as long as there are no hardware
issues and the correct recovery disks are used.

Windows 7 is irrelevant to the OP's question.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ