You're Welcome, David.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: http://www.winuser.co.uk
Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org
Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org
Web: http://www.silversurfer-guide.com

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"DavidG" wrote in message
news
Hi Friends,
Thanks for the generosity of your responses. I"m not sure how to make a
"Reply to All" posting but I would like to thank each of you for your
knowledge.

DL and Josh, you have given me the simplicity I needed. Yes my drives are
all Sata. Your instructions are probably the best for me as I need it
simple.

Jawade, you are probably trying to give me fantastic expert knowledge, but
unfortunately much of what you are telling me has gone over my head.
Maybe
I'll become advanced enough to do those things later on. But thank you
very
much for your sharing.

Botox, thank you also, your instructions are clear and concise and they
work
in well with earlier instructions. You have also have given me confidence
when I come to upgrade the Vista drive to Windows 7. I will leave the XP
drive as it is. Thank you.

Finally John, much appreciated. I have downloaded the instructions from
the
Windows web site link that you gave. I will also explore the Vista and XP
mvps.og sites as well. Thanks to you for your help in helping me solve
this
puzzle.

I live in a regional country area in Australia called Albury. Me, and
others like me rely so heavily on getting information from great sites
like
this, and great people like yourselves,
Thanks again
David

Hi, David.

You've received plenty of good advice here. You don't really need more,
but... ;^}

Ever since WinNT4 (which is where I jumped in to dual-booting), the
Microsoft dual-boot (actually multi-boot) system has consisted of two parts:
The System Partition and the Boot Volume. For the official but
counterintuitive definitions of these two terms, see KB 314470 (
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/ ). As others have said, those
uninformed on such matters may think it strange that we boot from the system
partition and keep the operating system files in the boot volume - but those
terms are rooted in computer history and we're stuck with them. I see this
as a figure "Y". It all stands on the upright portion, the System
Partition. The boot process starts there, then proceeds to one of the two
(or more) branches of the "Y", depending on what we select. (In a one-OS
system, the "Y" looks like an "I", but the System Partition and Boot Volume
still exist - and the distinction is still important.)

The System Partition must be a primary partition and marked Active
(bootable), and it must be on the HDD designated in the BIOS as the boot
device. The Boot Volume may be a primary partition, but it also may be a
logical drive in an extended partition on any HDD in the computer. If there
are multiple Windows installations, each will have its own Boot Volume, but
they will all share the single System Partition. (More complex arrangements
are possible, such as creating a System Partition on each of multiple HDDs
and changing BIOS settings to choose between them, as some have suggested in
this thread, but let's keep it simple for the current discussion.)

The System Partition can be very small (well under 1 GB) because all that is
required to be there are the boot sector (512 bytes) and the few relatively
small startup files. The Win2K/XP startup files are only NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini. For Vista/Win7, they are only the file "bootmgr"
(no extension) and the folder named \Boot, which holds the BCD (Boot
Configuration Data). No matter where you tell Setup to install Windows,
these startup files MUST be in the System Partition.

All the rest of Windows (maybe 10 GB or more for Vista) will be installed in
a single folder tree, named \Windows, in the Root of whichever volume you
choose, which thereby becomes the Boot Volume for that Windows installation.
This CAN share the System Partition - and that is the typical arrangement,
especially for newbies and for new computers with Windows pre-installed.
But this means that you can't format that Boot Volume without also wiping
out the System Partition. (Win7's default installation on a new blank
computer solves this by creating the System Partition as a separate volume
with no drive letter, then creating the large boot volume and assigning it
Drive C:. But that arrangement is not available to us when adding Win7 to
an existing WinXP system.)

WinXP's Setup.exe never heard of Vista or Win7, of course, because those did
not exist back in 2001, when WinXP was released. But Vista and Win7 Setup
knows how to handle an existing WinXP. That's the reason for the Golden
Rule of Dual-Booting: Always install the newest Windows last. When Win7
Setup finds an existing WinXP, it does not delete NTLDR, etc., but adds its
own bootmgr and \Boot folder alongside them, then rewrites the boot sector
(after saving a copy of it). Later, on each reboot, the BCD menu includes
an option for an "Earlier version of Windows". If you choose that, the BCD
gets out of the way and lets NTLDR present the familiar Boot.ini menu - if
there are multiple Win2K/XP options - or continues directly into WinXP if
there is only one. Since you want to add WinXP to a system that already has
Vista installed, you'll need to do some repair work after installing WinXP,
but that's easier than it used to be. And upgrading from Vista to Win7
later should be easy, although Microsoft hasn't yet published the details of
this transition.

Well, that's enough for now. We could discuss drive letters and such, or
creating multiple System Partitions on your multiple HDDs (for insurance in
case one HDD gets damaged), but we can save those for another day.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly instructions on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a good site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge to any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I figure the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks

What can I say, the reponses to my post have been fantastic and generous. As
is yours RC. The only thing, and I might be wrong about this, but I still
feel a little uncertain about setting up the booting side of it. What I mean
is does the "Earlier version of Windows" option occur automatically or do I
need to do something? How do I physically set that choice up? If I'm
overdoing the request let me know, I feel confident about the installation,
it is just that last bit.



"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

You've received plenty of good advice here. You don't really need more,
but... ;^}

Ever since WinNT4 (which is where I jumped in to dual-booting), the
Microsoft dual-boot (actually multi-boot) system has consisted of two parts:
The System Partition and the Boot Volume. For the official but
counterintuitive definitions of these two terms, see KB 314470 (
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/ ). As others have said, those
uninformed on such matters may think it strange that we boot from the system
partition and keep the operating system files in the boot volume - but those
terms are rooted in computer history and we're stuck with them. I see this
as a figure "Y". It all stands on the upright portion, the System
Partition. The boot process starts there, then proceeds to one of the two
(or more) branches of the "Y", depending on what we select. (In a one-OS
system, the "Y" looks like an "I", but the System Partition and Boot Volume
still exist - and the distinction is still important.)

The System Partition must be a primary partition and marked Active
(bootable), and it must be on the HDD designated in the BIOS as the boot
device. The Boot Volume may be a primary partition, but it also may be a
logical drive in an extended partition on any HDD in the computer. If there
are multiple Windows installations, each will have its own Boot Volume, but
they will all share the single System Partition. (More complex arrangements
are possible, such as creating a System Partition on each of multiple HDDs
and changing BIOS settings to choose between them, as some have suggested in
this thread, but let's keep it simple for the current discussion.)

The System Partition can be very small (well under 1 GB) because all that is
required to be there are the boot sector (512 bytes) and the few relatively
small startup files. The Win2K/XP startup files are only NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini. For Vista/Win7, they are only the file "bootmgr"
(no extension) and the folder named \Boot, which holds the BCD (Boot
Configuration Data). No matter where you tell Setup to install Windows,
these startup files MUST be in the System Partition.

All the rest of Windows (maybe 10 GB or more for Vista) will be installed in
a single folder tree, named \Windows, in the Root of whichever volume you
choose, which thereby becomes the Boot Volume for that Windows installation.
This CAN share the System Partition - and that is the typical arrangement,
especially for newbies and for new computers with Windows pre-installed.
But this means that you can't format that Boot Volume without also wiping
out the System Partition. (Win7's default installation on a new blank
computer solves this by creating the System Partition as a separate volume
with no drive letter, then creating the large boot volume and assigning it
Drive C:. But that arrangement is not available to us when adding Win7 to
an existing WinXP system.)

WinXP's Setup.exe never heard of Vista or Win7, of course, because those did
not exist back in 2001, when WinXP was released. But Vista and Win7 Setup
knows how to handle an existing WinXP. That's the reason for the Golden
Rule of Dual-Booting: Always install the newest Windows last. When Win7
Setup finds an existing WinXP, it does not delete NTLDR, etc., but adds its
own bootmgr and \Boot folder alongside them, then rewrites the boot sector
(after saving a copy of it). Later, on each reboot, the BCD menu includes
an option for an "Earlier version of Windows". If you choose that, the BCD
gets out of the way and lets NTLDR present the familiar Boot.ini menu - if
there are multiple Win2K/XP options - or continues directly into WinXP if
there is only one. Since you want to add WinXP to a system that already has
Vista installed, you'll need to do some repair work after installing WinXP,
but that's easier than it used to be. And upgrading from Vista to Win7
later should be easy, although Microsoft hasn't yet published the details of
this transition.

Well, that's enough for now. We could discuss drive letters and such, or
creating multiple System Partitions on your multiple HDDs (for insurance in
case one HDD gets damaged), but we can save those for another day.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly instructions on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a good site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge to any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I figure the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks

Hi DL,

I really like your instructions, they are pure and simple. Why are so many
of the other responses so detailed and technical? I don't get it. So all I
have to do is disconnect the Vista drive from the motherboard, install the
brand new drive and boot from the XP CD in order to install it. Then, once
XP is installed, I shut down the PC. OK, then, I power the PC on and I have
to go to into the BIOS and select which HDD to boot. Question. How do I set
up a menu choice like 1) Vista,
2) XP, and away it goes, how do I do that?

"DL" wrote:

The 'cleanest way' would be to disconnect your Vista drive then install
winxp as per normal, if its to a sata drive you may have to use the F6
option to install sata controler drivers from floppy early in the
installation process.
Once done and updated, shutdown, reconnect Vista drive.
On booting you use the Bios options shortcut to select which drive to boot
from

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly instructions on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a good site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge to any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I figure the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks

If you install XP first, then Vista, Vista will setup the dual boot menu
automatically.
To install XP second can be a PITA.
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/22...-vista-xp.html


--
Windows 7 RC
http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview
http://download.live.com/wlmail

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi DL,

I really like your instructions, they are pure and simple. Why are so
many
of the other responses so detailed and technical? I don't get it. So all
I
have to do is disconnect the Vista drive from the motherboard, install the
brand new drive and boot from the XP CD in order to install it. Then,
once
XP is installed, I shut down the PC. OK, then, I power the PC on and I
have
to go to into the BIOS and select which HDD to boot. Question. How do I
set
up a menu choice like 1) Vista,
2) XP, and away it goes, how do I do that?

"DL" wrote:

The 'cleanest way' would be to disconnect your Vista drive then install
winxp as per normal, if its to a sata drive you may have to use the F6
option to install sata controler drivers from floppy early in the
installation process.
Once done and updated, shutdown, reconnect Vista drive.
On booting you use the Bios options shortcut to select which drive to
boot
from

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly instructions
on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the
group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a good
site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge to
any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I figure
the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would
there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks

Hi, David.

does the "Earlier version of Windows" option occur automatically

Yes. Setup.exe in either Vista or Win7 will automatically create this as
the first of the boot options if it detects WinXP already installed on the
computer.

On later reboots, if you select (or let it default to) Vista or Win7, this
"earlier" line will be ignored, of course, and your Vista/Win7 selection
will be loaded and started, just as you would expect. NTLDR, etc., will
simply be ignored in that case. But if you select the "earlier" option,
then Vista's bootmgr will turn control over to the saved file of the WinXP
boot sector, which knows nothing of Vista but will look for NTLDR - and
continue as though Vista/Win7 did not exist. As always in a WinXP-only
system, if there is only a single WinXP installation, the boot process will
not waste time presenting the Boot.ini menu but will simply boot the only
choice.

While you may not have tried, it, some of us have dual-booted multiple
installations of Win2K/XP. We might have (or have had) WinXP Pro (x86) plus
WinXP x64 - and maybe an installation of Win2K, all selected from the
Boot.ini menu at startup. If we added Vista to that system, Vista's Setup
would preserve that Boot.ini file. On each reboot, when we select
"earlier", that previous multiple-choice Boot.ini menu will be presented.
But if there is only a single choice in Boot.ini, that OS will be booted
automatically after we select "earlier".

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
What can I say, the reponses to my post have been fantastic and generous.
As
is yours RC. The only thing, and I might be wrong about this, but I still
feel a little uncertain about setting up the booting side of it. What I
mean
is does the "Earlier version of Windows" option occur automatically or do
I
need to do something? How do I physically set that choice up? If I'm
overdoing the request let me know, I feel confident about the
installation,
it is just that last bit.



"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

You've received plenty of good advice here. You don't really need more,
but... ;^}

Ever since WinNT4 (which is where I jumped in to dual-booting), the
Microsoft dual-boot (actually multi-boot) system has consisted of two
parts:
The System Partition and the Boot Volume. For the official but
counterintuitive definitions of these two terms, see KB 314470 (
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/ ). As others have said,
those
uninformed on such matters may think it strange that we boot from the
system
partition and keep the operating system files in the boot volume - but
those
terms are rooted in computer history and we're stuck with them. I see
this
as a figure "Y". It all stands on the upright portion, the System
Partition. The boot process starts there, then proceeds to one of the
two
(or more) branches of the "Y", depending on what we select. (In a one-OS
system, the "Y" looks like an "I", but the System Partition and Boot
Volume
still exist - and the distinction is still important.)

The System Partition must be a primary partition and marked Active
(bootable), and it must be on the HDD designated in the BIOS as the boot
device. The Boot Volume may be a primary partition, but it also may be a
logical drive in an extended partition on any HDD in the computer. If
there
are multiple Windows installations, each will have its own Boot Volume,
but
they will all share the single System Partition. (More complex
arrangements
are possible, such as creating a System Partition on each of multiple
HDDs
and changing BIOS settings to choose between them, as some have suggested
in
this thread, but let's keep it simple for the current discussion.)

The System Partition can be very small (well under 1 GB) because all that
is
required to be there are the boot sector (512 bytes) and the few
relatively
small startup files. The Win2K/XP startup files are only NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini. For Vista/Win7, they are only the file
"bootmgr"
(no extension) and the folder named \Boot, which holds the BCD (Boot
Configuration Data). No matter where you tell Setup to install Windows,
these startup files MUST be in the System Partition.

All the rest of Windows (maybe 10 GB or more for Vista) will be installed
in
a single folder tree, named \Windows, in the Root of whichever volume you
choose, which thereby becomes the Boot Volume for that Windows
installation.
This CAN share the System Partition - and that is the typical
arrangement,
especially for newbies and for new computers with Windows pre-installed.
But this means that you can't format that Boot Volume without also wiping
out the System Partition. (Win7's default installation on a new blank
computer solves this by creating the System Partition as a separate
volume
with no drive letter, then creating the large boot volume and assigning
it
Drive C:. But that arrangement is not available to us when adding Win7
to
an existing WinXP system.)

WinXP's Setup.exe never heard of Vista or Win7, of course, because those
did
not exist back in 2001, when WinXP was released. But Vista and Win7
Setup
knows how to handle an existing WinXP. That's the reason for the Golden
Rule of Dual-Booting: Always install the newest Windows last. When Win7
Setup finds an existing WinXP, it does not delete NTLDR, etc., but adds
its
own bootmgr and \Boot folder alongside them, then rewrites the boot
sector
(after saving a copy of it). Later, on each reboot, the BCD menu
includes
an option for an "Earlier version of Windows". If you choose that, the
BCD
gets out of the way and lets NTLDR present the familiar Boot.ini menu -
if
there are multiple Win2K/XP options - or continues directly into WinXP if
there is only one. Since you want to add WinXP to a system that already
has
Vista installed, you'll need to do some repair work after installing
WinXP,
but that's easier than it used to be. And upgrading from Vista to Win7
later should be easy, although Microsoft hasn't yet published the details
of
this transition.

Well, that's enough for now. We could discuss drive letters and such, or
creating multiple System Partitions on your multiple HDDs (for insurance
in
case one HDD gets damaged), but we can save those for another day.

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly instructions
on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the
group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a good
site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge to
any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I figure
the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would
there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks

Hi, again, David.

In this post you are mixing apples and oranges. :(

EITHER:

You choose Microsoft's built-in system for multi-booting, which I've
described (at length) in this thread. This always boots from the same
System Partition on the same HDD each time and presents a menu.

OR

You create multiple System Partitions, one on each HDD, and reset the BIOS
before each reboot. Each System Partition boots only a single OS, either
WinXP or Vista. So far as I know (I haven't used this much), this does not
offer a menu; you must reboot - and reset the boot device in the BIOS - each
time.


Using the built-in system, and assuming a single installation of Vista and a
single installation of WinXP, the opening menu (simplified) would look like
this:

Which system would you like for this session:
Earlier version of Windows
Windows Vista

If you choose Vista, Vista will be loaded and started.
If you choose "earlier", WinXP will be loaded and started.


I like the built-in system better, but the choice is yours.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi DL,

I really like your instructions, they are pure and simple. Why are so
many
of the other responses so detailed and technical? I don't get it. So all
I
have to do is disconnect the Vista drive from the motherboard, install the
brand new drive and boot from the XP CD in order to install it. Then,
once
XP is installed, I shut down the PC. OK, then, I power the PC on and I
have
to go to into the BIOS and select which HDD to boot. Question. How do I
set
up a menu choice like 1) Vista,
2) XP, and away it goes, how do I do that?

"DL" wrote:

The 'cleanest way' would be to disconnect your Vista drive then install
winxp as per normal, if its to a sata drive you may have to use the F6
option to install sata controler drivers from floppy early in the
installation process.
Once done and updated, shutdown, reconnect Vista drive.
On booting you use the Bios options shortcut to select which drive to
boot
from

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly instructions
on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the
group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a good
site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge to
any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I figure
the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would
there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks

DavidG wrote:

Hi DL,

I really like your instructions, they are pure and simple. Why are so many
of the other responses so detailed and technical? I don't get it. So all I
have to do is disconnect the Vista drive from the motherboard, install the
brand new drive and boot from the XP CD in order to install it. Then, once
XP is installed, I shut down the PC. OK, then, I power the PC on and I have
to go to into the BIOS and select which HDD to boot. Question. How do I set
up a menu choice like 1) Vista,
2) XP, and away it goes, how do I do that?

You don't, using that method. Entering the BIOS is your "menu".



"DL" wrote:

The 'cleanest way' would be to disconnect your Vista drive then install
winxp as per normal, if its to a sata drive you may have to use the F6
option to install sata controler drivers from floppy early in the
installation process.
Once done and updated, shutdown, reconnect Vista drive.
On booting you use the Bios options shortcut to select which drive to boot
from

Hi R. C.

I've read over your thread a number of times and it is beginning to sink in.
I am new to this but the only way I'll learn is to do it myself. I'm just
worried about the system not booting at all. If I slip up somewhere. I
don't think I am thick but I'm probably thick as a brick where this is
concerned.

No one has said either yes or no to the proposed installation as described
by "DL" in the first posting (other than Josh). It seems too simple that I
just disconnect the already installed Vista drive, then plug in the blank HDD
and install XP as per normal. Is this part correct??? Once the XP
installation is complete it seems to be that once BOTH OSs are installed,
then the fun and games begins, is that true?

So If I am following your instructions BOTH HDDs will have a System
Volume/Partition. The Vista volume will have a system volume - because it
was already there. Because the Vista volume was disconnected when installing
XP, the XP volume also will have a system volume. OK, if I wade through the
instructions I've been given I will find an answer to this conundrum?

I guess I can always take the PC to my local computer shop, where they will
charge me by the hour and I will have still learnt nothing. Unfortunately,
to learn something I may have to ask dumb questions, well I'm not afraid of
that. If I encounter put-downs as a result of asking, then it is bad luck,
I'll keep asking.
Thanks



"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

does the "Earlier version of Windows" option occur automatically

Yes. Setup.exe in either Vista or Win7 will automatically create this as
the first of the boot options if it detects WinXP already installed on the
computer.

On later reboots, if you select (or let it default to) Vista or Win7, this
"earlier" line will be ignored, of course, and your Vista/Win7 selection
will be loaded and started, just as you would expect. NTLDR, etc., will
simply be ignored in that case. But if you select the "earlier" option,
then Vista's bootmgr will turn control over to the saved file of the WinXP
boot sector, which knows nothing of Vista but will look for NTLDR - and
continue as though Vista/Win7 did not exist. As always in a WinXP-only
system, if there is only a single WinXP installation, the boot process will
not waste time presenting the Boot.ini menu but will simply boot the only
choice.

While you may not have tried, it, some of us have dual-booted multiple
installations of Win2K/XP. We might have (or have had) WinXP Pro (x86) plus
WinXP x64 - and maybe an installation of Win2K, all selected from the
Boot.ini menu at startup. If we added Vista to that system, Vista's Setup
would preserve that Boot.ini file. On each reboot, when we select
"earlier", that previous multiple-choice Boot.ini menu will be presented.
But if there is only a single choice in Boot.ini, that OS will be booted
automatically after we select "earlier".

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
What can I say, the reponses to my post have been fantastic and generous.
As
is yours RC. The only thing, and I might be wrong about this, but I still
feel a little uncertain about setting up the booting side of it. What I
mean
is does the "Earlier version of Windows" option occur automatically or do
I
need to do something? How do I physically set that choice up? If I'm
overdoing the request let me know, I feel confident about the
installation,
it is just that last bit.



"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

You've received plenty of good advice here. You don't really need more,
but... ;^}

Ever since WinNT4 (which is where I jumped in to dual-booting), the
Microsoft dual-boot (actually multi-boot) system has consisted of two
parts:
The System Partition and the Boot Volume. For the official but
counterintuitive definitions of these two terms, see KB 314470 (
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/ ). As others have said,
those
uninformed on such matters may think it strange that we boot from the
system
partition and keep the operating system files in the boot volume - but
those
terms are rooted in computer history and we're stuck with them. I see
this
as a figure "Y". It all stands on the upright portion, the System
Partition. The boot process starts there, then proceeds to one of the
two
(or more) branches of the "Y", depending on what we select. (In a one-OS
system, the "Y" looks like an "I", but the System Partition and Boot
Volume
still exist - and the distinction is still important.)

The System Partition must be a primary partition and marked Active
(bootable), and it must be on the HDD designated in the BIOS as the boot
device. The Boot Volume may be a primary partition, but it also may be a
logical drive in an extended partition on any HDD in the computer. If
there
are multiple Windows installations, each will have its own Boot Volume,
but
they will all share the single System Partition. (More complex
arrangements
are possible, such as creating a System Partition on each of multiple
HDDs
and changing BIOS settings to choose between them, as some have suggested
in
this thread, but let's keep it simple for the current discussion.)

The System Partition can be very small (well under 1 GB) because all that
is
required to be there are the boot sector (512 bytes) and the few
relatively
small startup files. The Win2K/XP startup files are only NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini. For Vista/Win7, they are only the file
"bootmgr"
(no extension) and the folder named \Boot, which holds the BCD (Boot
Configuration Data). No matter where you tell Setup to install Windows,
these startup files MUST be in the System Partition.

All the rest of Windows (maybe 10 GB or more for Vista) will be installed
in
a single folder tree, named \Windows, in the Root of whichever volume you
choose, which thereby becomes the Boot Volume for that Windows
installation.
This CAN share the System Partition - and that is the typical
arrangement,
especially for newbies and for new computers with Windows pre-installed.
But this means that you can't format that Boot Volume without also wiping
out the System Partition. (Win7's default installation on a new blank
computer solves this by creating the System Partition as a separate
volume
with no drive letter, then creating the large boot volume and assigning
it
Drive C:. But that arrangement is not available to us when adding Win7
to
an existing WinXP system.)

WinXP's Setup.exe never heard of Vista or Win7, of course, because those
did
not exist back in 2001, when WinXP was released. But Vista and Win7
Setup
knows how to handle an existing WinXP. That's the reason for the Golden
Rule of Dual-Booting: Always install the newest Windows last. When Win7
Setup finds an existing WinXP, it does not delete NTLDR, etc., but adds
its
own bootmgr and \Boot folder alongside them, then rewrites the boot
sector
(after saving a copy of it). Later, on each reboot, the BCD menu
includes
an option for an "Earlier version of Windows". If you choose that, the
BCD
gets out of the way and lets NTLDR present the familiar Boot.ini menu -
if
there are multiple Win2K/XP options - or continues directly into WinXP if
there is only one. Since you want to add WinXP to a system that already
has
Vista installed, you'll need to do some repair work after installing
WinXP,
but that's easier than it used to be. And upgrading from Vista to Win7
later should be easy, although Microsoft hasn't yet published the details
of
this transition.

Well, that's enough for now. We could discuss drive letters and such, or
creating multiple System Partitions on your multiple HDDs (for insurance
in
case one HDD gets damaged), but we can save those for another day.

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly instructions
on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the
group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a good
site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge to
any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I figure
the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would
there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks

Hi, David.

I'm probably thick as a brick where this is
concerned.

It's called "mindset" - and we ALL have experienced it. :(

We all have known the "Aha!" moment when the "light bulb" turns on.
Immediately, what was so complex a moment ago is now as clear as a bell.
;)

It seems too simple that I
just disconnect the already installed Vista drive, then plug in the blank
HDD
and install XP as per normal. Is this part correct???

Yes, it's just that simple, to this point.

Once the XP
installation is complete it seems to be that once BOTH OSs are installed,
then the fun and games begins, is that true?

Not quite.

All you really need to do then is to update the startup files on your first
HDD. You need for Vista Setup.exe to write its files there while preserving
the WinXP startup files - and to create a menu to let you choose. (In all
your posts so far, David, you have not yet told us how many partitions are
on each HDD. Our job would be easier if we knew such basic facts about your
system. For now, I'm assuming a single partition on each HDD.)

Step 2: Leave the first HDD connected, with the System Partition on it -
and WinXP somewhere on that HDD, too. (I would prefer it in a second
partition, rather than have its boot volume share the system partition, but
that point is optional and does not change what happens next.)

Step 3: Connect your second HDD (with Vista and a second System Partition
on it).

Step 4: Boot from your Vista DVD and click Repair your computer. On the
next screen, click Startup Repair. As a part of the repair, Vista will
detect the existing WinXP and include the "earlier" version option in the
startup menu.

Repair should know to fix the first HDD, but it might do the second instead.
That's OK. You can just set your BIOS to boot from the second HDD instead
of the first. The computer will be just as happy that way. ;)

I am new to this but the only way I'll learn is to do it myself.

Yep! One thing for su You won't know until you try. A dozen more
newsgroup exchanges will leave you still wondering - and without a working
dual boot system. Do it - and then let us know what happened. You
shouldn't have any problems, but we're here if you do. ;)

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi R. C.

I've read over your thread a number of times and it is beginning to sink
in.
I am new to this but the only way I'll learn is to do it myself. I'm just
worried about the system not booting at all. If I slip up somewhere. I
don't think I am thick but I'm probably thick as a brick where this is
concerned.

No one has said either yes or no to the proposed installation as described
by "DL" in the first posting (other than Josh). It seems too simple that
I
just disconnect the already installed Vista drive, then plug in the blank
HDD
and install XP as per normal. Is this part correct??? Once the XP
installation is complete it seems to be that once BOTH OSs are installed,
then the fun and games begins, is that true?

So If I am following your instructions BOTH HDDs will have a System
Volume/Partition. The Vista volume will have a system volume - because it
was already there. Because the Vista volume was disconnected when
installing
XP, the XP volume also will have a system volume. OK, if I wade through
the
instructions I've been given I will find an answer to this conundrum?

I guess I can always take the PC to my local computer shop, where they
will
charge me by the hour and I will have still learnt nothing.
Unfortunately,
to learn something I may have to ask dumb questions, well I'm not afraid
of
that. If I encounter put-downs as a result of asking, then it is bad
luck,
I'll keep asking.
Thanks



"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

does the "Earlier version of Windows" option occur automatically

Yes. Setup.exe in either Vista or Win7 will automatically create this as
the first of the boot options if it detects WinXP already installed on
the
computer.

On later reboots, if you select (or let it default to) Vista or Win7,
this
"earlier" line will be ignored, of course, and your Vista/Win7 selection
will be loaded and started, just as you would expect. NTLDR, etc., will
simply be ignored in that case. But if you select the "earlier" option,
then Vista's bootmgr will turn control over to the saved file of the
WinXP
boot sector, which knows nothing of Vista but will look for NTLDR - and
continue as though Vista/Win7 did not exist. As always in a WinXP-only
system, if there is only a single WinXP installation, the boot process
will
not waste time presenting the Boot.ini menu but will simply boot the only
choice.

While you may not have tried, it, some of us have dual-booted multiple
installations of Win2K/XP. We might have (or have had) WinXP Pro (x86)
plus
WinXP x64 - and maybe an installation of Win2K, all selected from the
Boot.ini menu at startup. If we added Vista to that system, Vista's
Setup
would preserve that Boot.ini file. On each reboot, when we select
"earlier", that previous multiple-choice Boot.ini menu will be presented.
But if there is only a single choice in Boot.ini, that OS will be booted
automatically after we select "earlier".

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
What can I say, the reponses to my post have been fantastic and
generous.
As
is yours RC. The only thing, and I might be wrong about this, but I
still
feel a little uncertain about setting up the booting side of it. What
I
mean
is does the "Earlier version of Windows" option occur automatically or
do
I
need to do something? How do I physically set that choice up? If I'm
overdoing the request let me know, I feel confident about the
installation,
it is just that last bit.



"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

You've received plenty of good advice here. You don't really need
more,
but... ;^}

Ever since WinNT4 (which is where I jumped in to dual-booting), the
Microsoft dual-boot (actually multi-boot) system has consisted of two
parts:
The System Partition and the Boot Volume. For the official but
counterintuitive definitions of these two terms, see KB 314470 (
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/ ). As others have said,
those
uninformed on such matters may think it strange that we boot from the
system
partition and keep the operating system files in the boot volume - but
those
terms are rooted in computer history and we're stuck with them. I see
this
as a figure "Y". It all stands on the upright portion, the System
Partition. The boot process starts there, then proceeds to one of the
two
(or more) branches of the "Y", depending on what we select. (In a
one-OS
system, the "Y" looks like an "I", but the System Partition and Boot
Volume
still exist - and the distinction is still important.)

The System Partition must be a primary partition and marked Active
(bootable), and it must be on the HDD designated in the BIOS as the
boot
device. The Boot Volume may be a primary partition, but it also may
be a
logical drive in an extended partition on any HDD in the computer. If
there
are multiple Windows installations, each will have its own Boot
Volume,
but
they will all share the single System Partition. (More complex
arrangements
are possible, such as creating a System Partition on each of multiple
HDDs
and changing BIOS settings to choose between them, as some have
suggested
in
this thread, but let's keep it simple for the current discussion.)

The System Partition can be very small (well under 1 GB) because all
that
is
required to be there are the boot sector (512 bytes) and the few
relatively
small startup files. The Win2K/XP startup files are only NTLDR,
NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini. For Vista/Win7, they are only the file
"bootmgr"
(no extension) and the folder named \Boot, which holds the BCD (Boot
Configuration Data). No matter where you tell Setup to install
Windows,
these startup files MUST be in the System Partition.

All the rest of Windows (maybe 10 GB or more for Vista) will be
installed
in
a single folder tree, named \Windows, in the Root of whichever volume
you
choose, which thereby becomes the Boot Volume for that Windows
installation.
This CAN share the System Partition - and that is the typical
arrangement,
especially for newbies and for new computers with Windows
pre-installed.
But this means that you can't format that Boot Volume without also
wiping
out the System Partition. (Win7's default installation on a new blank
computer solves this by creating the System Partition as a separate
volume
with no drive letter, then creating the large boot volume and
assigning
it
Drive C:. But that arrangement is not available to us when adding
Win7
to
an existing WinXP system.)

WinXP's Setup.exe never heard of Vista or Win7, of course, because
those
did
not exist back in 2001, when WinXP was released. But Vista and Win7
Setup
knows how to handle an existing WinXP. That's the reason for the
Golden
Rule of Dual-Booting: Always install the newest Windows last. When
Win7
Setup finds an existing WinXP, it does not delete NTLDR, etc., but
adds
its
own bootmgr and \Boot folder alongside them, then rewrites the boot
sector
(after saving a copy of it). Later, on each reboot, the BCD menu
includes
an option for an "Earlier version of Windows". If you choose that,
the
BCD
gets out of the way and lets NTLDR present the familiar Boot.ini
menu -
if
there are multiple Win2K/XP options - or continues directly into WinXP
if
there is only one. Since you want to add WinXP to a system that
already
has
Vista installed, you'll need to do some repair work after installing
WinXP,
but that's easier than it used to be. And upgrading from Vista to
Win7
later should be easy, although Microsoft hasn't yet published the
details
of
this transition.

Well, that's enough for now. We could discuss drive letters and such,
or
creating multiple System Partitions on your multiple HDDs (for
insurance
in
case one HDD gets damaged), but we can save those for another day.

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi
I'm wanting to create a dual boot for my PC. I would like to use 2
separate
HDDs. One HDD has Vista Business (current) and the other proposed
HDD
will
have XP. I would like to locate some good user-friendly
instructions
on
how
to do this by downloading from a web site, or maybe someone on the
group
has
a set of instructions. Could someone assist please? Is there a
good
site
on
this topic?

I have tried Virtual PC 2007 but I cannot get the screen to enlarge
to
any
extent. Full screen mode fails every time I try it. Anyway, I
figure
the
twin HDDs would be the cleanest way to go. One more thing, I plan
on
upgrading the Vista installation to Windows 7 when released, would
there
be
issues with the dual boot when installing Win 7??
Thanks