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Dual Boot Instructions



 
 
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old June 14th 09, 02:43 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.hardware_devices
Tae Song
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 593
Default Dual Boot Instructions


"DavidG" wrote in message
...
G'day,

I'm staring at a black screen which says "Error loading Operating System".

I'm wondering what went wrong. No matter which way I turn this error
message comes up. This why I have such low confidence in dealing with
activities like this. It always happens.

I faithfully followed instructions, or so I thought. I installed the
physical HDD. I booted to Vista and activated the new hdd. I created a
primary partition, I named the volume WinXP and assigned the drive letter
X.



Don't bother with drive letters.

Think drives and partitions.

Assigning it a drive letter, you're telling Vista you want this partition on
this drive to be letter X: and it stores the information in the Registry.
This information only applies to this installation of Vista.

Booting up in XP, it will assign drive letters in the order that the drives
are detected, not by what Vista has in it's Registry. If you assign a
partition x on this drive y to Z:. in XP and reboot to Vista the drive
letters will be what you set it to in Vista X: and not what you set it to in
XP, Z:

Same with setup, it will assign drive letters in the order drives/partitions
were detected, which is why there is no X:. X: only exist for Vista,
because you told it this partition on this drive you want to be called X:.


I then rebooted the machine and inserted the XP CD. It booted to setup
and I
moved through the setup. When XP then went to reboot, as it rebooted, up
came the error message.

I have tried going through the process a number of times. One of the
quirky
things I noticed when going through this the first time (installing XP)
was
that when it offered me what drive to load it to, it didn't have X it
offered
me E. I thought that was curious. Anyway, what could I do there is no
option to change it to X.

I'm suspecting that XP has installed it has corrupted the Vista
installation. But it seems the XP install is also corrupt. The only
thing
that works on my computer now is the CD/DVD drive. I have rebooted off it
and I've selected a slow format of the E drive in a hope that may fix
something.

The only way I can communicate with the group is by using my laptop.
Which
is slow and tedious. But at least it works. So I guess I have gone to
prove
that no matter how much instruction you have, it ain't no guarantee.

There you go, any wisdom would be appreciated.
Regards
David G.



  #32 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 09, 03:06 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.hardware_devices
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,871
Default Dual Boot Instructions

Hi, David.

Then the issue will be how do I have both of these hdds connected to the
m'board and not have XP corrupt the Vista bootloader?


But that's the point that I've been trying to get across! WinXP Setup WILL
"corrupt" the Vista boot SECTOR. And then Vista's Startup Repair will
un-corrupt it.

The boot SECTOR is not the bootLOADER. Vista's bootloader is the file
"bootmgr". The boot sector is not a file. You can't see, copy, delete or
otherwise handle it with Windows Explorer or any other of the usual Windows
tools; only a special utility can do this, such as bootsect.exe or
DiskPart.exe - or the Setup.exe that installs Windows. And no matter
whether you have one HDD, or 2 or 7 connected, only ONE will hold the boot
sector that matters. There may well be other boot sectors on other HDDs,
but only ONE at a time has any effect on what happens.

WinXP Setup has NO IDEA about VISTA! So it bulldozes right over the Vista
boot sector. On the next reboot, when the system finds the HDD currently
designated as the boot device and looks at the first physical sector, it
finds the partition table for that HDD and sees that the first partition is
Active (bootable) so it reads the first physical sector of that partition.
That is the WinXP boot sector so it simply loads and runs WinXP. Even if
you have 3 HDDs connected, Setup.exe will overwrite only ONE boot sector -
the one that is in the System Partition at the time the computer is turned
on or rebooted. Partitions on other HDDs don't matter at all. Who cares if
the 3rd HDD also has a bootable partition, if the BIOS instructs the system
to boot from the first HDD?

Let's stop here and absorb this. So far, we've not looked for WinXP or
Vista or any other Windows or Linux or any other OS. So far, the computer
is just trying to discover the hardware, wake it up, and get enough
instructions to start looking for ANY OS. Each breadcrumb leads to the next
one where the system gains a little more intelligence. By the time it gets
the boot sector code loaded into memory and starts executing those few bytes
of code, the system is able to follow the instruction to find a file named
NTLDR, load it, and start executing its instruction. NTLDR has instructions
for finding NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini - but it knows absolutely nothing
about Vista's file named bootmgr, much less about Vista's Root-level folder
named \Boot.

That's the reason for the newest-OS-last Golden Rule. When that rule is
violated, we no longer can simply (1) install WinXP, (2) install Vista and
let it create the dual-boot in the same System Partition that WinXP was
using. Now, since we violated the Golden rule, the complete install
sequence becomes more complex:
(1) Install Vista (no dual-boot menu gets created because there's no
other OS installed); on the next reboot, the boot sector says nothing about
NTLDR, of course, but looks for bootmgr.
(2) Install WinXP - which will "corrupt" (your word, not mine) Vista's
boot sector by completely overwriting it; on the next reboot, the system
ignores bootmgr and follows the new instructions to load NTLDR, et seq;
(3) Install Vista again - or at least, run its Repair Startup
function - so that it can once again write the Vista-version boot sector,
which will look for bootmgr rather than NTLDR. Vista's Setup DOES know
about the older WinXP, so when it detects WinXP on any connected HDD, it
will add the {ntldr} entry in its BCD. On the next reboot, the system will
follow the boot sector's instruction and load bootmgr - which will include
in its menu the {ntldr} option to boot the "Earlier...Windows". If you
choose Earlier, bootmgr will load NTLDR, turn over control to that, and get
out of the way so that WinXP can be loaded.

Is there an echo in here? It seems I've said all this at least a couple of
times already. :^{

figuring if I went with the simple install i.e. disconnect Vista sata
from
m'board and install XP that way, which was suggested at the first posting
on
this thread.


That's still an option. But it still means that you will have to reset your
BIOS each time to switch to the other OS.

Good luck. This whole job SHOULD be done in less than a couple of hours,
maybe a lot less. Less time than it took me to type it all out - again.
Keep us posted on your progress.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Further to my last posting, I've been able to re-install Vista, back to
square one. I endeavoured to use the repair function with Vista install,
but
it failed to repair the corrupt boot sector. So Vista advised me that it
now
takes the old corrupted install and removes it to a Windows.old folder.

So now i have Vista with a lot of programs and updates to reinstall as
well
as a new hdd with nothing but a corrupt Win XP installation on it. I'm
now
figuring if I went with the simple install i.e. disconnect Vista sata
from
m'board and install XP that way, which was suggested at the first posting
on
this thread.

Then the issue will be how do I have both of these hdds connected to the
m'board and not have XP corrupt the Vista bootloader?

That's it for now,
Thanks
David G.

"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

I'm endeavouring to back up all my data, but I've had issues with the
backup


There are at least two reasons for using multiple partitions, and this is
the second. The first, of course, is to allow dual-booting by putting
each
OS on a separate partition. The second is so that we can put our data
files
in a "neutral" partition with NO OS at all. Then, when we want or need
to
delete or update an OS, we can completely reformat Drive "Vista (V"
(for
example) while our data remains safe and secure on Drive "Data (D".
Then,
when we've reinstalled Vista or Win7 on V:, and reinstalled our
applications
that use the data, we can immediately access the data without going
through
the Restore process. After all, Word documents, for example, don't care
whether we are running WinXP or Vista or Win7, so long as Word is
installed
in whichever OS we are using. We can easily start a letter while running
WinXP in the morning, then finish the same letter in Vista in the
afternoon.
Just tell Word in each OS to use the same drive\folder for its data file.

When you install your new 750 GB HD for WinXP, make the WinXP partition
just
50 GB. IF you've already created a single 750 GB partition, then either
Shrink it by 700 GB or delete it and start over. Then create a 700 GB
partition to use for your data. Move all your Word and Excel documents,
all
your family photos, all your music and video files...all your data... to
this Data volume. Adjust these sizes and numbers to fit your own needs,
of
course. It's the idea that is important, not the specific numbers.

Good luck. And let us know about your progress.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100


"DavidG" wrote in message
...
G'day R.C.

Thanks for your advice. Sorry about the email.

You haven't studied Disk Management nearly enough! :^{

You are right, but I will have by the time I finish this exercise.

I could sit here and write a whole lot of "valid" reasons why I haven't
completed this job yet, but I guess we all have busy lives. So I
won't.

I wish to thank you for being so patient and knowledgable, also the
other
contributers to this post. The last post on this thread will be me
saying
"I've completed the Job". And maybe I'll have more to comment on then.

I'm endeavouring to back up all my data, but I've had issues with the
backup
software, so I'm in conversations with the software vendor. Anyway,
that's
just a temp distraction. I will get there.

Thanks for your support,

Regards from down under,

David



You are looking only at the Volume List, which is at the top of the
window,
by default. Maybe you haven't Maximized the Disk Management window
and
cannot see the Graphical View at the bottom of the window. The
Graphical
View doesn't bother to put column headings, but the left-most column
shows
the PHYSICAL DISK number, not the partition (volume) letter.

It appears that my Disk 0 has the System
Partition and Boot Volume as well as other things.

You should, at any one time, see ONE System Partition and ONE Boot
Volume -
and they may or may not be the SAME volume. Are they, in your system?
But,
at another time, when you dual-boot into a different OS (WinXP?), the
System
Partition should remain the same volume, but a different volume will
have
the Boot status - and the volume that was labeled Boot before will now
be
"just another volume". Well, it will no longer the Boot volume, but
if
it
was the System Partition (in Vista?), it still should have that
status.
Remember the "Y": It stands on a single leg (the one System
Partition)
and
can branch to any one of multiple Boot Volumes - but only one at a
time
will
be the current boot volume.

I have downloaded VistaBootPro 3.3 is that all I need to download?
Is EasyBCD any better or they both do the same job? You haven't
made any reference to these utilities. Aside from that I think I'm
just
about ready to go, ("good to go"). Thanks again for your help mate
(in
the
U.S. I think you say "buddy"). Much appreciated.

I've used the third-party BCD managers just enough to know that I
prefer
to
use BCDEdit. Yes, it's clumsy and inscrutable and "techy", but I got
familiar with it during the Vista beta.

But you shouldn't need any 3rd-party programs. Just make up your mind
and
go for it. You started this thread more than a week ago and you've
received
nearly 2 dozen replies from nearly a dozen helpers. And you haven't
actually tried anything yet. You could read about "how to ride a
bicycle"
for years but, until you actually get on the bike, you still won't
understand what the book is trying to tell you. And, until you
actually
try
to partition and format that new drive, you won't really understand
Disk
Management. You'll understand it better after you've "crashed your
bike"
a
couple of times, recovered from the crash, and tried again.

Please don't send me an email about this. Netiquette frowns on email
responses to newsgroup posts. In email, only two parties can benefit;
here
in the newsgroup, others can participate and learn or help, too. If
my
answer is wrong or incomplete, someone here can correct or complete
it.
If
I give you bad advice in email, you're just stuck with it.

Good luck, Mate!

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
G'day RC,

You sound just like an Aussie.

To matters partitioning,

In disk management my computer shows

Disk 0 (C as 465GB NTFS (with Vista)
It is healthy with (System, Boot, Page File, Active, Crash Dump,

Primary Partition)

Disk 1 Storage (D as 698GB NTFS (just data storage)
Healthy (Primary Partition).

I haven't physically installed the 3rd XP disk yet. (I want to

make sure I understand exactly what I'm doing before I go messing

something up).

Having said that I'm sure I have enough information and support, I

just need to read over it all and absorb it.

I note that Disk Management has a first column called "Volume", but

I suspect this is at odds with what you have described, or is it?

What I've also gathered is there is a limit of 4 partitions to a

disk. But I can create an Extended Partition that can house

additional partitions. It appears that my Disk 0 has the System

Partition and Boot Volume as well as other things.

I have downloaded VistaBootPro 3.3 is that all I need to download?

Is EasyBCD any better or they both do the same job? You haven't

made any reference to these utilities. Aside from that I think I'm
just
about ready to go, ("good to go"). Thanks again for your help mate
(in
the
U.S. I think you say "buddy"). Much appreciated.



"R. C. White" wrote:

G'day, Mate! (Did I say that right? g )

The only reason I'm putting in the extra HDD
is because of the negatives I've heard about 2 OSs on 1 drive.
Am I
misled?

The problem is in our often-imprecise use of the word "drive".
Just
like
many other words ("right" and "left" come to mind), this word means
different things at different times, depending on the context.

If "drive" means a single partition or logical drive, then the
negatives
you've heard are very true.

But if "drive" means a physical hard disk drive, then I'm in big
trouble
because I have SIX versions of Windows installed on my 1 TB Disk 1,
my
second HDD! I'm currently running the Win7 x64 RC from the 9th
logical
drive on that disk!

Rather than type it all over again, let me paste what I just typed
in
another newsgroup. It's partly a repeat of what I just said - or
said
in
an
earlier post - but it seems to need the repetition:

paste
About "drive" letters: This is one of my pet peeves because it is
one
of
the hardest mindsets to break! "Drive" has many meanings, just
like
"right"
and "left" and so many other English words. And in computer-speak,
it
sometimes refers to the physical hardware, but more often to just a
partition - just a defined portion of the physical disk. Our often
cavalier
use of the word "drive" causes one of the biggest fallacies
ingrained
into
the minds of new computer users - and the fallacy persists even in
many
(most?) computer veterans. :(

"Drive" letters are never assigned to physical disks; those are
assigned
NUMBERS, not letters. They start with zero, which is why Disk
Management
calls the HDDs "Disk 0", "Disk 1", etc. Each "drive" letter
actually
is
assigned to a "volume", which can be either a primary partition or
a
logical
drive in an extended partition on an HDD - or to a partition on a
flash
drive (not the flash drive itself) or to a partition on a CD/DVD
drive
(not
to the whole drive) or to a camera or a card reader. (I've never
had
a
network, but I understand that they also use "drive" letters.) But
we
began
to refer to Drive A: way back when we first started to use floppy
disks
in
the 1970's - and the term really did refer to the whole 67.5 KB
diskette.
The name stuck when we added hard disk drives, reserving letters A:
and
B:
for the typical two floppy drives and assigning Drive C: to THE
hard
disk.
Then we learned how to divide the hard disk platter into
"partitions"
and
assign a different letter to each partition. But we continued to
use
the
term "drive" to refer to each of the partitions, rather than to the
entire
disk. When we began to need more than 4 partitions on a single
disk,
we
created one "extended partition" on the disk; we did not assign a
letter
to
the extended partition, but we created one or more logical drives
in
the
extended partition and assigned a "drive" letter to each of those
logical
drives. (We now often use the term "volume" to refer to either a
primary
partition or a logical drive.) And then came optical drives, flash
drives
and all those other "drives".

If you run Disk Management, you will see this clearly in the
Graphical
View.
Disk 0 might include 2 primary partitions and an extended partition
with
3
logical drives. The "drive" letters might be F:, C:, X:, D:, R:...
In
other words, the letters are independent of the sequence on the
HDD.
In
fact, there may not be a Drive C: at all - which blows the mindset
I
mentioned, but is perfectly legal.

Vista changed the algorithm for assigning drive letters during
Setup.
In
WinXP, Setup first assigned Drive C: to the System Partition, which
usually
was also the boot volume. (See the oft-cited KB 314470 for the
counterintuitive definitions of "system volume" and "boot volume" -
legacy


  #33 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 09, 12:36 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.hardware_devices
DavidG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Dual Boot Instructions

Hi R. C.

Is there an echo in here? It seems I've said all this at least a couple of
times already. :^{


Before saying anything about the topic, I need to say this. To employ a
euphemism in this situation, I have a condition that affects my short term
memory. I'm sorry this has been a frustrating experience for you. I can
only admire your patience and perserverance in a difficult situation. You
have the patience of Job. I applaud you for this. Thanks.

Both HDDs are functional. 1) with XP, 2) with Vista.

I ended up reinstalling Vista, (after installing XP). It seemed to
automatically come up with "Earlier version of Windows" and "Windows Vista"
as alternatively when booting. The only thing remaining seems to be the
system restore points being deleted by XP.

I have gone to kb926185. In method 1 my path runs out at MountedDevices, I
don't have the \Offline subkey. It mentions this further down the article.
My confidence is not high with registry editing. Do I need to worry about
restore points if I systematically backup my data to external HDDs?

If it is any consolation to you I have copied all your postings along with
other postings and am making it into a manual of instructions on this whole
topic.

Thank you once again R.C.
Things seem to be running OK, (aside from restore points).

"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

Then the issue will be how do I have both of these hdds connected to the
m'board and not have XP corrupt the Vista bootloader?


But that's the point that I've been trying to get across! WinXP Setup WILL
"corrupt" the Vista boot SECTOR. And then Vista's Startup Repair will
un-corrupt it.

The boot SECTOR is not the bootLOADER. Vista's bootloader is the file
"bootmgr". The boot sector is not a file. You can't see, copy, delete or
otherwise handle it with Windows Explorer or any other of the usual Windows
tools; only a special utility can do this, such as bootsect.exe or
DiskPart.exe - or the Setup.exe that installs Windows. And no matter
whether you have one HDD, or 2 or 7 connected, only ONE will hold the boot
sector that matters. There may well be other boot sectors on other HDDs,
but only ONE at a time has any effect on what happens.

WinXP Setup has NO IDEA about VISTA! So it bulldozes right over the Vista
boot sector. On the next reboot, when the system finds the HDD currently
designated as the boot device and looks at the first physical sector, it
finds the partition table for that HDD and sees that the first partition is
Active (bootable) so it reads the first physical sector of that partition.
That is the WinXP boot sector so it simply loads and runs WinXP. Even if
you have 3 HDDs connected, Setup.exe will overwrite only ONE boot sector -
the one that is in the System Partition at the time the computer is turned
on or rebooted. Partitions on other HDDs don't matter at all. Who cares if
the 3rd HDD also has a bootable partition, if the BIOS instructs the system
to boot from the first HDD?

Let's stop here and absorb this. So far, we've not looked for WinXP or
Vista or any other Windows or Linux or any other OS. So far, the computer
is just trying to discover the hardware, wake it up, and get enough
instructions to start looking for ANY OS. Each breadcrumb leads to the next
one where the system gains a little more intelligence. By the time it gets
the boot sector code loaded into memory and starts executing those few bytes
of code, the system is able to follow the instruction to find a file named
NTLDR, load it, and start executing its instruction. NTLDR has instructions
for finding NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini - but it knows absolutely nothing
about Vista's file named bootmgr, much less about Vista's Root-level folder
named \Boot.

That's the reason for the newest-OS-last Golden Rule. When that rule is
violated, we no longer can simply (1) install WinXP, (2) install Vista and
let it create the dual-boot in the same System Partition that WinXP was
using. Now, since we violated the Golden rule, the complete install
sequence becomes more complex:
(1) Install Vista (no dual-boot menu gets created because there's no
other OS installed); on the next reboot, the boot sector says nothing about
NTLDR, of course, but looks for bootmgr.
(2) Install WinXP - which will "corrupt" (your word, not mine) Vista's
boot sector by completely overwriting it; on the next reboot, the system
ignores bootmgr and follows the new instructions to load NTLDR, et seq;
(3) Install Vista again - or at least, run its Repair Startup
function - so that it can once again write the Vista-version boot sector,
which will look for bootmgr rather than NTLDR. Vista's Setup DOES know
about the older WinXP, so when it detects WinXP on any connected HDD, it
will add the {ntldr} entry in its BCD. On the next reboot, the system will
follow the boot sector's instruction and load bootmgr - which will include
in its menu the {ntldr} option to boot the "Earlier...Windows". If you
choose Earlier, bootmgr will load NTLDR, turn over control to that, and get
out of the way so that WinXP can be loaded.

Is there an echo in here? It seems I've said all this at least a couple of
times already. :^{

figuring if I went with the simple install i.e. disconnect Vista sata
from
m'board and install XP that way, which was suggested at the first posting
on
this thread.


That's still an option. But it still means that you will have to reset your
BIOS each time to switch to the other OS.

Good luck. This whole job SHOULD be done in less than a couple of hours,
maybe a lot less. Less time than it took me to type it all out - again.
Keep us posted on your progress.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Further to my last posting, I've been able to re-install Vista, back to
square one. I endeavoured to use the repair function with Vista install,
but
it failed to repair the corrupt boot sector. So Vista advised me that it
now
takes the old corrupted install and removes it to a Windows.old folder.

So now i have Vista with a lot of programs and updates to reinstall as
well
as a new hdd with nothing but a corrupt Win XP installation on it. I'm
now
figuring if I went with the simple install i.e. disconnect Vista sata
from
m'board and install XP that way, which was suggested at the first posting
on
this thread.

Then the issue will be how do I have both of these hdds connected to the
m'board and not have XP corrupt the Vista bootloader?

That's it for now,
Thanks
David G.

"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

I'm endeavouring to back up all my data, but I've had issues with the
backup

There are at least two reasons for using multiple partitions, and this is
the second. The first, of course, is to allow dual-booting by putting
each
OS on a separate partition. The second is so that we can put our data
files
in a "neutral" partition with NO OS at all. Then, when we want or need
to
delete or update an OS, we can completely reformat Drive "Vista (V"
(for
example) while our data remains safe and secure on Drive "Data (D".
Then,
when we've reinstalled Vista or Win7 on V:, and reinstalled our
applications
that use the data, we can immediately access the data without going
through
the Restore process. After all, Word documents, for example, don't care
whether we are running WinXP or Vista or Win7, so long as Word is
installed
in whichever OS we are using. We can easily start a letter while running
WinXP in the morning, then finish the same letter in Vista in the
afternoon.
Just tell Word in each OS to use the same drive\folder for its data file.

When you install your new 750 GB HD for WinXP, make the WinXP partition
just
50 GB. IF you've already created a single 750 GB partition, then either
Shrink it by 700 GB or delete it and start over. Then create a 700 GB
partition to use for your data. Move all your Word and Excel documents,
all
your family photos, all your music and video files...all your data... to
this Data volume. Adjust these sizes and numbers to fit your own needs,
of
course. It's the idea that is important, not the specific numbers.

Good luck. And let us know about your progress.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100


"DavidG" wrote in message
...
G'day R.C.

Thanks for your advice. Sorry about the email.

You haven't studied Disk Management nearly enough! :^{

You are right, but I will have by the time I finish this exercise.

I could sit here and write a whole lot of "valid" reasons why I haven't
completed this job yet, but I guess we all have busy lives. So I
won't.

I wish to thank you for being so patient and knowledgable, also the
other
contributers to this post. The last post on this thread will be me
saying
"I've completed the Job". And maybe I'll have more to comment on then.

I'm endeavouring to back up all my data, but I've had issues with the
backup
software, so I'm in conversations with the software vendor. Anyway,
that's
just a temp distraction. I will get there.

Thanks for your support,

Regards from down under,

David



You are looking only at the Volume List, which is at the top of the
window,
by default. Maybe you haven't Maximized the Disk Management window
and
cannot see the Graphical View at the bottom of the window. The
Graphical
View doesn't bother to put column headings, but the left-most column
shows
the PHYSICAL DISK number, not the partition (volume) letter.

It appears that my Disk 0 has the System
Partition and Boot Volume as well as other things.

You should, at any one time, see ONE System Partition and ONE Boot
Volume -
and they may or may not be the SAME volume. Are they, in your system?
But,
at another time, when you dual-boot into a different OS (WinXP?), the
System
Partition should remain the same volume, but a different volume will
have
the Boot status - and the volume that was labeled Boot before will now
be
"just another volume". Well, it will no longer the Boot volume, but
if
it
was the System Partition (in Vista?), it still should have that
status.
Remember the "Y": It stands on a single leg (the one System
Partition)
and
can branch to any one of multiple Boot Volumes - but only one at a
time
will
be the current boot volume.

I have downloaded VistaBootPro 3.3 is that all I need to download?
Is EasyBCD any better or they both do the same job? You haven't
made any reference to these utilities. Aside from that I think I'm
just
about ready to go, ("good to go"). Thanks again for your help mate
(in
the
U.S. I think you say "buddy"). Much appreciated.

I've used the third-party BCD managers just enough to know that I
prefer
to
use BCDEdit. Yes, it's clumsy and inscrutable and "techy", but I got
familiar with it during the Vista beta.

But you shouldn't need any 3rd-party programs. Just make up your mind
and
go for it. You started this thread more than a week ago and you've
received
nearly 2 dozen replies from nearly a dozen helpers. And you haven't
actually tried anything yet. You could read about "how to ride a
bicycle"
for years but, until you actually get on the bike, you still won't
understand what the book is trying to tell you. And, until you
actually
try
to partition and format that new drive, you won't really understand
Disk
Management. You'll understand it better after you've "crashed your
bike"
a
couple of times, recovered from the crash, and tried again.

Please don't send me an email about this. Netiquette frowns on email
responses to newsgroup posts. In email, only two parties can benefit;
here
in the newsgroup, others can participate and learn or help, too. If
my
answer is wrong or incomplete, someone here can correct or complete
it.
If
I give you bad advice in email, you're just stuck with it.

Good luck, Mate!

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
G'day RC,

You sound just like an Aussie.

To matters partitioning,

In disk management my computer shows

Disk 0 (C as 465GB NTFS (with Vista)
It is healthy with (System, Boot, Page File, Active, Crash Dump,

Primary Partition)

Disk 1 Storage (D as 698GB NTFS (just data storage)
Healthy (Primary Partition).

  #34 (permalink)  
Old June 16th 09, 04:47 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.hardware_devices
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,871
Default Dual Boot Instructions

Hi, David.

Things seem to be running OK, (aside from restore points).


Great! ;)

I ended up reinstalling Vista, (after installing XP). It seemed to
automatically come up with "Earlier version of Windows" and "Windows
Vista"
as alternatively when booting.


Good old Golden Rule! Works (almost) every time. ;)

The only thing remaining seems to be the
system restore points being deleted by XP.


This is where I have to bail out on you. I've heard about the problem of
deleting restore points, but it hasn't happened to me. It is a well-known
and oft-discussed problem so you should find plenty of help with Google - or
Microsoft's new Bing.

Thanks for the feedback - and for explaining about your memory condition.
I'm sorry if I came off too gruff sometimes.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8064.0206) in Win7 Ultimate x64 RC 7100

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Hi R. C.

Is there an echo in here? It seems I've said all this at least a couple
of
times already. :^{


Before saying anything about the topic, I need to say this. To employ a
euphemism in this situation, I have a condition that affects my short term
memory. I'm sorry this has been a frustrating experience for you. I can
only admire your patience and perserverance in a difficult situation. You
have the patience of Job. I applaud you for this. Thanks.

Both HDDs are functional. 1) with XP, 2) with Vista.

I ended up reinstalling Vista, (after installing XP). It seemed to
automatically come up with "Earlier version of Windows" and "Windows
Vista"
as alternatively when booting. The only thing remaining seems to be the
system restore points being deleted by XP.

I have gone to kb926185. In method 1 my path runs out at MountedDevices, I
don't have the \Offline subkey. It mentions this further down the
article.
My confidence is not high with registry editing. Do I need to worry about
restore points if I systematically backup my data to external HDDs?

If it is any consolation to you I have copied all your postings along with
other postings and am making it into a manual of instructions on this
whole
topic.

Thank you once again R.C.

c
"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

Then the issue will be how do I have both of these hdds connected to
the
m'board and not have XP corrupt the Vista bootloader?


But that's the point that I've been trying to get across! WinXP Setup
WILL
"corrupt" the Vista boot SECTOR. And then Vista's Startup Repair will
un-corrupt it.

The boot SECTOR is not the bootLOADER. Vista's bootloader is the file
"bootmgr". The boot sector is not a file. You can't see, copy, delete
or
otherwise handle it with Windows Explorer or any other of the usual
Windows
tools; only a special utility can do this, such as bootsect.exe or
DiskPart.exe - or the Setup.exe that installs Windows. And no matter
whether you have one HDD, or 2 or 7 connected, only ONE will hold the
boot
sector that matters. There may well be other boot sectors on other HDDs,
but only ONE at a time has any effect on what happens.

WinXP Setup has NO IDEA about VISTA! So it bulldozes right over the
Vista
boot sector. On the next reboot, when the system finds the HDD currently
designated as the boot device and looks at the first physical sector, it
finds the partition table for that HDD and sees that the first partition
is
Active (bootable) so it reads the first physical sector of that
partition.
That is the WinXP boot sector so it simply loads and runs WinXP. Even if
you have 3 HDDs connected, Setup.exe will overwrite only ONE boot
sector -
the one that is in the System Partition at the time the computer is
turned
on or rebooted. Partitions on other HDDs don't matter at all. Who cares
if
the 3rd HDD also has a bootable partition, if the BIOS instructs the
system
to boot from the first HDD?

Let's stop here and absorb this. So far, we've not looked for WinXP or
Vista or any other Windows or Linux or any other OS. So far, the
computer
is just trying to discover the hardware, wake it up, and get enough
instructions to start looking for ANY OS. Each breadcrumb leads to the
next
one where the system gains a little more intelligence. By the time it
gets
the boot sector code loaded into memory and starts executing those few
bytes
of code, the system is able to follow the instruction to find a file
named
NTLDR, load it, and start executing its instruction. NTLDR has
instructions
for finding NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini - but it knows absolutely nothing
about Vista's file named bootmgr, much less about Vista's Root-level
folder
named \Boot.

That's the reason for the newest-OS-last Golden Rule. When that rule is
violated, we no longer can simply (1) install WinXP, (2) install Vista
and
let it create the dual-boot in the same System Partition that WinXP was
using. Now, since we violated the Golden rule, the complete install
sequence becomes more complex:
(1) Install Vista (no dual-boot menu gets created because there's no
other OS installed); on the next reboot, the boot sector says nothing
about
NTLDR, of course, but looks for bootmgr.
(2) Install WinXP - which will "corrupt" (your word, not mine)
Vista's
boot sector by completely overwriting it; on the next reboot, the system
ignores bootmgr and follows the new instructions to load NTLDR, et seq;
(3) Install Vista again - or at least, run its Repair Startup
function - so that it can once again write the Vista-version boot sector,
which will look for bootmgr rather than NTLDR. Vista's Setup DOES know
about the older WinXP, so when it detects WinXP on any connected HDD, it
will add the {ntldr} entry in its BCD. On the next reboot, the system
will
follow the boot sector's instruction and load bootmgr - which will
include
in its menu the {ntldr} option to boot the "Earlier...Windows". If you
choose Earlier, bootmgr will load NTLDR, turn over control to that, and
get
out of the way so that WinXP can be loaded.

Is there an echo in here? It seems I've said all this at least a couple
of
times already. :^{

figuring if I went with the simple install i.e. disconnect Vista sata
from
m'board and install XP that way, which was suggested at the first
posting
on
this thread.


That's still an option. But it still means that you will have to reset
your
BIOS each time to switch to the other OS.

Good luck. This whole job SHOULD be done in less than a couple of hours,
maybe a lot less. Less time than it took me to type it all out - again.
Keep us posted on your progress.

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
Further to my last posting, I've been able to re-install Vista, back to
square one. I endeavoured to use the repair function with Vista
install,
but
it failed to repair the corrupt boot sector. So Vista advised me that
it
now
takes the old corrupted install and removes it to a Windows.old folder.

So now i have Vista with a lot of programs and updates to reinstall as
well
as a new hdd with nothing but a corrupt Win XP installation on it. I'm
now
figuring if I went with the simple install i.e. disconnect Vista sata
from
m'board and install XP that way, which was suggested at the first
posting
on
this thread.

Then the issue will be how do I have both of these hdds connected to
the
m'board and not have XP corrupt the Vista bootloader?

That's it for now,
Thanks
David G.

"R. C. White" wrote:

Hi, David.

I'm endeavouring to back up all my data, but I've had issues with
the
backup

There are at least two reasons for using multiple partitions, and this
is
the second. The first, of course, is to allow dual-booting by putting
each
OS on a separate partition. The second is so that we can put our data
files
in a "neutral" partition with NO OS at all. Then, when we want or
need
to
delete or update an OS, we can completely reformat Drive "Vista (V"
(for
example) while our data remains safe and secure on Drive "Data (D".
Then,
when we've reinstalled Vista or Win7 on V:, and reinstalled our
applications
that use the data, we can immediately access the data without going
through
the Restore process. After all, Word documents, for example, don't
care
whether we are running WinXP or Vista or Win7, so long as Word is
installed
in whichever OS we are using. We can easily start a letter while
running
WinXP in the morning, then finish the same letter in Vista in the
afternoon.
Just tell Word in each OS to use the same drive\folder for its data
file.

When you install your new 750 GB HD for WinXP, make the WinXP
partition
just
50 GB. IF you've already created a single 750 GB partition, then
either
Shrink it by 700 GB or delete it and start over. Then create a 700 GB
partition to use for your data. Move all your Word and Excel
documents,
all
your family photos, all your music and video files...all your data...
to
this Data volume. Adjust these sizes and numbers to fit your own
needs,
of
course. It's the idea that is important, not the specific numbers.

Good luck. And let us know about your progress.

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
G'day R.C.

Thanks for your advice. Sorry about the email.

You haven't studied Disk Management nearly enough! :^{

You are right, but I will have by the time I finish this exercise.

I could sit here and write a whole lot of "valid" reasons why I
haven't
completed this job yet, but I guess we all have busy lives. So I
won't.

I wish to thank you for being so patient and knowledgable, also the
other
contributers to this post. The last post on this thread will be me
saying
"I've completed the Job". And maybe I'll have more to comment on
then.

I'm endeavouring to back up all my data, but I've had issues with
the
backup
software, so I'm in conversations with the software vendor.
Anyway,
that's
just a temp distraction. I will get there.

Thanks for your support,

Regards from down under,

David



You are looking only at the Volume List, which is at the top of the
window,
by default. Maybe you haven't Maximized the Disk Management window
and
cannot see the Graphical View at the bottom of the window. The
Graphical
View doesn't bother to put column headings, but the left-most
column
shows
the PHYSICAL DISK number, not the partition (volume) letter.

It appears that my Disk 0 has the System
Partition and Boot Volume as well as other things.

You should, at any one time, see ONE System Partition and ONE Boot
Volume -
and they may or may not be the SAME volume. Are they, in your
system?
But,
at another time, when you dual-boot into a different OS (WinXP?),
the
System
Partition should remain the same volume, but a different volume
will
have
the Boot status - and the volume that was labeled Boot before will
now
be
"just another volume". Well, it will no longer the Boot volume,
but
if
it
was the System Partition (in Vista?), it still should have that
status.
Remember the "Y": It stands on a single leg (the one System
Partition)
and
can branch to any one of multiple Boot Volumes - but only one at a
time
will
be the current boot volume.

I have downloaded VistaBootPro 3.3 is that all I need to
download?
Is EasyBCD any better or they both do the same job? You haven't
made any reference to these utilities. Aside from that I think
I'm
just
about ready to go, ("good to go"). Thanks again for your help
mate
(in
the
U.S. I think you say "buddy"). Much appreciated.

I've used the third-party BCD managers just enough to know that I
prefer
to
use BCDEdit. Yes, it's clumsy and inscrutable and "techy", but I
got
familiar with it during the Vista beta.

But you shouldn't need any 3rd-party programs. Just make up your
mind
and
go for it. You started this thread more than a week ago and you've
received
nearly 2 dozen replies from nearly a dozen helpers. And you
haven't
actually tried anything yet. You could read about "how to ride a
bicycle"
for years but, until you actually get on the bike, you still won't
understand what the book is trying to tell you. And, until you
actually
try
to partition and format that new drive, you won't really understand
Disk
Management. You'll understand it better after you've "crashed your
bike"
a
couple of times, recovered from the crash, and tried again.

Please don't send me an email about this. Netiquette frowns on
email
responses to newsgroup posts. In email, only two parties can
benefit;
here
in the newsgroup, others can participate and learn or help, too.
If
my
answer is wrong or incomplete, someone here can correct or complete
it.
If
I give you bad advice in email, you're just stuck with it.

Good luck, Mate!

RC

"DavidG" wrote in message
...
G'day RC,

You sound just like an Aussie.

To matters partitioning,

In disk management my computer shows

Disk 0 (C as 465GB NTFS (with Vista)
It is healthy with (System, Boot, Page File, Active, Crash Dump,

Primary Partition)

Disk 1 Storage (D as 698GB NTFS (just data storage)
Healthy (Primary Partition).


 




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