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Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 05:25 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
chasgl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
..
..
..
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen? Any way to fix it?
Thanks,
Chas

  #2 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 09:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
Richard G. Harper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 119
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

That strange thing would happen because dashes, spaces and other punctuation
marks in file or folder names are alphabetized as well as letters and
numbers. If you check a chart of character codes you'll find that a blank
space is the lowest possible character code and therefore will always be
sorted to the top of a list. This has been the way it has always worked in
Windows. It can't be "fixed" because it's not "broken".

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine
like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they
would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes
out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen? Any way to fix it?
Thanks,
Chas

  #3 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 09:03 AM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
Richard G. Harper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 119
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

That strange thing would happen because dashes, spaces and other punctuation
marks in file or folder names are alphabetized as well as letters and
numbers. If you check a chart of character codes you'll find that a blank
space is the lowest possible character code and therefore will always be
sorted to the top of a list. This has been the way it has always worked in
Windows. It can't be "fixed" because it's not "broken".

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine
like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they
would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes
out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen? Any way to fix it?
Thanks,
Chas

  #4 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 02:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
chasgl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

Since the space is the lowest value we were counting on it ALWAYS being
sorted first. What is actually happening is that it is SOMETIMES being
sorted first. I must have been unclear with my post. The list starts out
with the spaces first then it puts the dashes in the list and the spaces
last.
It certainly matches the definition of strange. If you are right that spaces
should always be first the it also matches the definition of broken.
Thanks for trying to help.
Chas

"Richard G. Harper" wrote:

That strange thing would happen because dashes, spaces and other punctuation
marks in file or folder names are alphabetized as well as letters and
numbers. If you check a chart of character codes you'll find that a blank
space is the lowest possible character code and therefore will always be
sorted to the top of a list. This has been the way it has always worked in
Windows. It can't be "fixed" because it's not "broken".

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine
like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they
would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes
out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen? Any way to fix it?
Thanks,
Chas

  #5 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 02:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
chasgl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

Since the space is the lowest value we were counting on it ALWAYS being
sorted first. What is actually happening is that it is SOMETIMES being
sorted first. I must have been unclear with my post. The list starts out
with the spaces first then it puts the dashes in the list and the spaces
last.
It certainly matches the definition of strange. If you are right that spaces
should always be first the it also matches the definition of broken.
Thanks for trying to help.
Chas

"Richard G. Harper" wrote:

That strange thing would happen because dashes, spaces and other punctuation
marks in file or folder names are alphabetized as well as letters and
numbers. If you check a chart of character codes you'll find that a blank
space is the lowest possible character code and therefore will always be
sorted to the top of a list. This has been the way it has always worked in
Windows. It can't be "fixed" because it's not "broken".

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine
like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they
would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes
out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen? Any way to fix it?
Thanks,
Chas

  #6 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 02:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
Ken Blake, MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,308
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:25:01 -0700, chasgl
wrote:

My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen?



You call it strange, but it's exactly what I would expect. You are
apparently expecting that both the space and hyphen will be ignored,
but that's not the case for either. A space is not the absence of a
character, it's a specific character, and it's the character that's
sorted to the top of the list. The hyphen comes later in the sort
order, before the letters and numbers.


Any way to fix it?




You can't "fix" the Windows behavior, because there's nothing wrong
with it. But you can rename the files to make them more consistent.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
  #7 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 02:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
Ken Blake, MVP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,308
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:25:01 -0700, chasgl
wrote:

My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen?



You call it strange, but it's exactly what I would expect. You are
apparently expecting that both the space and hyphen will be ignored,
but that's not the case for either. A space is not the absence of a
character, it's a specific character, and it's the character that's
sorted to the top of the list. The hyphen comes later in the sort
order, before the letters and numbers.


Any way to fix it?




You can't "fix" the Windows behavior, because there's nothing wrong
with it. But you can rename the files to make them more consistent.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup
  #8 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 02:44 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,871
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

Hi, Chas.

You might find some insight into the sorting algorithm in this KB article:
The sort order for files and folders whose names contain numerals is
different in Windows Vista, Windows XP, and Windows Server 2003 than it is
in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/319827

Since I don't have the problem myself, I haven't studied this thoroughly,
but It should answer some questions for you.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
Since the space is the lowest value we were counting on it ALWAYS being
sorted first. What is actually happening is that it is SOMETIMES being
sorted first. I must have been unclear with my post. The list starts out
with the spaces first then it puts the dashes in the list and the spaces
last.
It certainly matches the definition of strange. If you are right that
spaces
should always be first the it also matches the definition of broken.
Thanks for trying to help.
Chas

"Richard G. Harper" wrote:

That strange thing would happen because dashes, spaces and other
punctuation
marks in file or folder names are alphabetized as well as letters and
numbers. If you check a chart of character codes you'll find that a
blank
space is the lowest possible character code and therefore will always be
sorted to the top of a list. This has been the way it has always worked
in
Windows. It can't be "fixed" because it's not "broken".

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine
like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they
would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes
out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen? Any way to fix it?
Thanks,
Chas


  #9 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 02:44 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,871
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

Hi, Chas.

You might find some insight into the sorting algorithm in this KB article:
The sort order for files and folders whose names contain numerals is
different in Windows Vista, Windows XP, and Windows Server 2003 than it is
in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/319827

Since I don't have the problem myself, I haven't studied this thoroughly,
but It should answer some questions for you.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
Since the space is the lowest value we were counting on it ALWAYS being
sorted first. What is actually happening is that it is SOMETIMES being
sorted first. I must have been unclear with my post. The list starts out
with the spaces first then it puts the dashes in the list and the spaces
last.
It certainly matches the definition of strange. If you are right that
spaces
should always be first the it also matches the definition of broken.
Thanks for trying to help.
Chas

"Richard G. Harper" wrote:

That strange thing would happen because dashes, spaces and other
punctuation
marks in file or folder names are alphabetized as well as letters and
numbers. If you check a chart of character codes you'll find that a
blank
space is the lowest possible character code and therefore will always be
sorted to the top of a list. This has been the way it has always worked
in
Windows. It can't be "fixed" because it's not "broken".

"chasgl" wrote in message
...
My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine
like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they
would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes
out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen? Any way to fix it?
Thanks,
Chas


  #10 (permalink)  
Old October 2nd 09, 04:42 PM posted to microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management
chasgl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 45
Default Funny alphabetation in Windows explorer

Gosh I can tell my first post was hard to understand. I was COUNTING on the
space being a character. I expected ALL the 2009space folders to be before
the 2009dash folders. That is why I consistently named the ones I wanted
to separate with a space and the others with a dash . To see if I had
made some mistake in that I tried Agent Ransack. Agent Ransack worked, it put
the folders 2009space all to together and the 2009dash together. You are
probably right there is not way to fix Windows behavior. But you are wrong
Windows behavior is broken.


"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote:

On Thu, 1 Oct 2009 22:25:01 -0700, chasgl
wrote:

My sweety and I take pictures and store them in folders. I label mine like
this 2009 09 22. My sweety does 2009-09-22. We figured that way they would
appear by date and each of ours would be separate. But the order comes out
like this
2009 08 27 Near Ali and Saida's mostly biking
2009 08 28 Saida and Ali return Arc de Triumph and Tour Effel
a bunch of other folders
2009-01-04. Dhyana-Terri in town.breakfast
2009-02-27. Party-Selim.Saida,Ali.Dan.Matt
.
.
.
2009-09-14 Lemgo
2009-09-23 Austin Property
2009 08 29 Sacre-coer
2009 08 30. Vaux-Le-Vicomte. Ali+M+C

So first are some with 2009space etc
then some 2009- etc
then some 2009space etc

Why would this strange thing happen?



You call it strange, but it's exactly what I would expect. You are
apparently expecting that both the space and hyphen will be ignored,
but that's not the case for either. A space is not the absence of a
character, it's a specific character, and it's the character that's
sorted to the top of the list. The hyphen comes later in the sort
order, before the letters and numbers.


Any way to fix it?




You can't "fix" the Windows behavior, because there's nothing wrong
with it. But you can rename the files to make them more consistent.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 




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