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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
Greetings, group. My first post here. (I used to hang out on
the Win2000 groups a lot, then WinXP; but now that I'm using Windows 8.1, I figure *this* group is more appropriate.) I ran into a problem today: I found that I cannot create new files in the root directory of my C: drive (ie, "C:\"). I've never had reason to try to do so in the 2 months or so I've had this Asus notebook running Windows 8.1, until today, when I tried making a batch file called "substs.bat" with the following content: subst D: C:\D subst E: C:\E subst F: C:\F subst G: C:\G (The reason is, I have many makefiles, shortcuts, etc linking to things on drives D and E, left over from the days when I had a tower system with multiple physical hard disks. So rather than manually alter all those references when moving or copying operations to new computers, I just make folders called C, D, E, F on whatever large drive is available, copy appropriate contents to those, and subst the drive letters DEFG to the folders DEFG.) I tried to save the file in "C:\", but I got this error message: "Error 0x80070522: A required privilege is not held by the client." (I wonder what "client" means in this context?) On googling that, I found thousands of people with the same problem, with lots of Microsoft engineers giving them absurd advice such as: "Just share your root drive with 'Everyone'" [extreme security breach!!! no way in bloody hell I'm going to share all my files with my neighbors! and they WOULD get access, as I'm sharing my network key with the neighbors in my building] or "Set security on C:\ to allow 'Everyone' full control, for that folder, subfolders, and files, and replace permissions on all subfolder and files with those permissions" [another extreme security breach]. Lots of people writing back saying "tried that, didn't work", or "refuse to try that, too big a security breach", or "tried that, then I couldn't even log onto my machine", or in one case "An admin can't even write to his own hard disk? What kind of @#%$@^ OS is this? I'm going back to Linux. Bill Gates can suck my #^#%$^#^%%!!!!!!" But one observant and resourceful person said: 'Just create the files ELSEWHERE, then copy or move them to "C:\" Once the file is in "C:\", you can edit it in place at will, or delete it; it's apparently only attempts to CREATE files on root directories of drives that causes the error.' I tried that, and it works. But I'm curious: Why can't I CREATE a new file directly in "C:\"? Is there some valid reason for this, or is it a bug? And if it's a bug, why hasn't it been fixed? (I see complaints from people on the web having this issue in Windows Vista as far back as 2009.) And, is there a FIX for this, or do we just have to create files elsewhere and MOVE them to "C:\" when we want/need to create new files there? (Yes, I'm aware that MOST new files should NOT go in "C:\". But there are some files -- such as batch files intended to run when Windows or the "cmd" DOS box start -- which just naturally seem to belong in "C:\".) Thanks in advance for any answers, questions, solutions, comments anyone may offer. I'm all ears regarding this strange problem. (PS: I can't find any newsgroups specifically for Windows 8, so I posted this to several windows groups which looked like they might be relevant; my apologies if anyone gets duplicates, or if this post is seen as being off-topic.) -- Cheers, Robbie Hatley lonewolf [at] well [dot] com http://www.well.com/user/lonewolf/index.html https://www.facebook.com/robbie.hatley |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
From: "Robbie Hatley"
Greetings, group. My first post here. (I used to hang out on the Win2000 groups a lot, then WinXP; but now that I'm using Windows 8.1, I figure *this* group is more appropriate.) It is not "this" group as you cross-posted this to 5 groups which makes it "these groups" denoting the plural nature. You can't. The OS will not allow it. Even if you; Disable UAC, Disable LUA in the Machine Local Policy or take Ownership. You can't override that. -- Dave Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
On 12/14/2013, Robbie Hatley posted:
Greetings, group. My first post here. (I used to hang out on the Win2000 groups a lot, then WinXP; but now that I'm using Windows 8.1, I figure *this* group is more appropriate.) I ran into a problem today: I found that I cannot create new files in the root directory of my C: drive (ie, "C:\"). I've never had reason to try to do so in the 2 months or so I've had this Asus notebook running Windows 8.1, until today, when I tried making a batch file called "substs.bat" with the following content: subst D: C:\D subst E: C:\E subst F: C:\F subst G: C:\G [Verbiage and rants clipped] Of the five groups you posted to, not one was alt.os.comp.windows-8. *That* group might have been approriate. You can't use the root so easily. However, you could make a directory in the root and put your substitute files their. Or not. Just try it. Why you'd want to do that is beyond me. Your explanations don't make me much better... Anyway, your first job is to learn about the OS you are using. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
On 12/15/2013, Gene E. Bloch posted:
don't make me much better don't make me *feel* much better Nor, apparently, make me *think* much better :-) -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
On 12/15/2013 11:34 AM, David H. Lipman wrote: From: "Robbie Hatley" Greetings, group. My first post here. (I used to hang out on the Win2000 groups a lot, then WinXP; but now that I'm using Windows 8.1, I figure *this* group is more appropriate.) It is not "this" group as you cross-posted this to 5 groups which makes it "these groups" denoting the plural nature. I originally intended to send this to microsoft.public.windows.64bit.general only, but decided at the last second to also send it to a few other related groups; but I forgot to alter the first few lines of the message. You can't. The OS will not allow it. Even if you; Disable UAC, Disable LUA in the Machine Local Policy or take Ownership. You can't override that. I sort of figured, as I pointed out in my post. I tried having my main administrator account seize ownership of C: and propagate ownership to all children of C: (except for the page, swap, and hibernation files, which can't change owner because they're perpetually "in-use"). Didn't hurt anything (that I can see), but didn't allow me to create files in "C:\". Which makes me truly flabbergasted to read a webfull of Microsoft engineers giving egregiously horrible advice telling people to turn off all their security and share all their files with everyone. Damages their systems, and doesn't even fix the original problem. (And even if it did (which it doesn't) the "cure" would be worse than the original problem.) And also leaves me puzzled as to *why* Windows 8 (and apparently Vista and 7 as well) have this... ummm... "bug"?... "feature"? Is this for some reason? Such as, a security danger somehow inherent in allowing *creation* of files in "C:\", but not *copying* files to "C:\" or editing them there? I'm having a hard time seeing how this feature improves security. Or is it just some mistake that never got corrected because it seemed too unimportant to bother with? (I've seen a lot of bugs of that nature in Windows over the years, from 3.1 to 8.1 and all versions in between. Not a bad operating system, but it does have fleas.) -- Cheers, Robbie Hatley lonewolf [at] well [dot] com http://www.well.com/user/lonewolf/index.html https://www.facebook.com/robbie.hatley |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
On 12/15/2013 5:35 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: [Verbiage and rants clipped] New to cyberspace, I take it? (Either that, or been living in a cave, or perhaps in prison, for the past 10 years?) Starting a communique with ad-hominem rhetoric right off the bat is a horrible idea; tips your hand as an asshole and a troll from the very first second and instantly mars your readers' view of you, and dramatically decreases their trust in all you say. You're welcome. Of the five groups you posted to, not one was alt.os.comp.windows-8. None of my servers carry that group. The only windows-8 group I saw listed was in Italian (a language I don't speak). *That* group might have been approriate. Perhaps. You can't use the root so easily. You can always use it for grafting. (I've been looking at the botanical pictures in the Voynich Manuscript today, you see. Also, I just like ****ing with trolls' minds. It's fun.) However, you could make a directory in the root and put your substitute files their. That should be "there". And no need for substitute files. As I pointed out, you can *put* files in "C:\" all you want (by copying them there from elsewhere); you just can't *create* them there. Does that seem idiotic to you? It does to me. But that is apparently how Windows Vista, 7, and 8 do it, I'm learning. Or not. Is the NOT on the input side of the OR (in which case you meant NAND), or is it on the output side (in which case you meant NOR)? Just try it. As I pointed out in my post, I already found the workaround of copying files to "C:\" from elsewhere. (You took the time and energy to blather about alleged excessive verbiage and "rants" in my post, but you apparently didn't take the time to actually read it. Seems nonsensical to me. But trolls often do.) Why you'd want to do that is beyond me. You mean, 'Why have files in subfolders of "C:\"?'? Where else would you put them? Don't tell me you're still storing your files on 3 1/2" crunchies??? How many of those does it take you to backup a 1TB hard disk??? Your explanations don't make me much better. Aw. I'm so sorry you're having trouble understanding. Perhaps take some classes in remedial computer science at your local junior college. Anyway, your first job is to learn about the OS you are using. My first job was as an electronics technician, back in 1978. As for understanding new OSs, Windows 8.1 is in some ways the most opaque and hard-to-understand OS MS has come out with so far. Most of its underlying functionality appears to be hidden behind a cutesy Fisher-Price-like cartoon GUI, with the controls and settings harder to find than ever. Of all MS's OSs, I liked 2K-pro and XP-pro best. Those before that were too error-prone, and those after are too bloated and geared more for tiny screens and mobile apps, rather than the desktops and notebooks with large screens I prefer using. -- Cheers, Robbie Hatley lonewolf [at] well [dot] com http://www.well.com/user/lonewolf/index.html https://www.facebook.com/robbie.hatley |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
On 12/15/2013 9:25 PM, R. C. White wrote: Hi, Robbie. The "root" of the Boot Volume (C:\) is a protected area in every recent Windows version. Ah, ok, this bug is actually a "feature", then. Thanks for being the first person I've seen so far on either the web or Usenet to give a straight answer as to why this bug exists. "Protected" means that we cannot copy a file to C:\. Actually, you can copy or move files to "C:\" to your heart's content; you just can't *create* them there. That's why I find this feature so puzzling. It weakly attempts to block people (or other entities) from putting new files on "C:\", but the restriction is easy to get around: 1. Make a folder, say "C:\Temp". 2. Create desired file in "C:\Temp". 3. Move file to "C:\". But we can create a folder there, then copy a file to that folder, or create a file in that folder. Yes, obviously. If no files or folders were allowed to exist on a hard disk, it wouldn't be much use. (Well, maybe as a paperweight.) So, rather than copy File.txt (for example) to C:\text.file, we can create a New Folder "Texts" in C:\, then copy the file to C:\texts\file.txt. Or open a Command Prompt window and use the md (Make Directory) command: md c:\texts, and than copy the file there. As I explained in my post, I was trying to put 2 start-up batch files in "C:\", called "win_init.bat" (which is launched from HKLM_Run) and "dos_init.bat" (which is launched on clicking a toolbar shortcut for cmd). The most logical place for these files is in "C:\", not some subfolder. And indeed, once I learned the "move" trick, it was easy to do so. I'm not sure how to do all the things you want to do with your files and folders, I never asked how to do things with files and folders, just how to create files in "C:\". And it now appears that the answer is that you can't do that, but you can create files elsewhere and *move* them to "C:\". And that's fine. Not ideal, but I can live with it. but just remember that C:\ is a protected folder. This protected area idea is not new, it just wasn't enforced before UAC came along. I'm not familiar with "UAC", but I'll look it up; thanks for the citation. But since you can copy or move any files you want to "C:\", I don't see how it's all that "protected". What's the advantage of prohibiting *creation* of files in "C:\" if you allow files to be *moved* there from elsewhere? -- Cheers, Robbie Hatley lonewolf [at] well [dot] com http://www.well.com/user/lonewolf/index.html https://www.facebook.com/robbie.hatley |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
Hi, Robbie.
You might want to start with this Forum thread for a discussion of why C:\ is a "protected area" starting with Windows Vista: http://www.vistax64.com/vista-file-m...directory.html UAC = User Access Control UAC has been the major security feature (AKA thorn in the side) for users ever since it was introduced. It is what requires us to Run as Administrator to do many of the simple things that used to not require such credentials. Only members of the Administrators group can perform some functions, and only THE Administrator can do a few others. There are ways to disable UAC, but few experts recommend that because it leaves the computer vulnerable to many easily avoidable threats. Experienced Windows users quickly learn how to live with UAC and take advantage of its features. Generally, the less a user knows about the workings of Windows, the more eager he/she is to disable UAC. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3508.0205) in Win8.1 Pro "Robbie Hatley" wrote in message ... On 12/15/2013 9:25 PM, R. C. White wrote: Hi, Robbie. The "root" of the Boot Volume (C:\) is a protected area in every recent Windows version. Ah, ok, this bug is actually a "feature", then. Thanks for being the first person I've seen so far on either the web or Usenet to give a straight answer as to why this bug exists. "Protected" means that we cannot copy a file to C:\. Actually, you can copy or move files to "C:\" to your heart's content; you just can't *create* them there. That's why I find this feature so puzzling. It weakly attempts to block people (or other entities) from putting new files on "C:\", but the restriction is easy to get around: 1. Make a folder, say "C:\Temp". 2. Create desired file in "C:\Temp". 3. Move file to "C:\". But we can create a folder there, then copy a file to that folder, or create a file in that folder. Yes, obviously. If no files or folders were allowed to exist on a hard disk, it wouldn't be much use. (Well, maybe as a paperweight.) So, rather than copy File.txt (for example) to C:\text.file, we can create a New Folder "Texts" in C:\, then copy the file to C:\texts\file.txt. Or open a Command Prompt window and use the md (Make Directory) command: md c:\texts, and than copy the file there. As I explained in my post, I was trying to put 2 start-up batch files in "C:\", called "win_init.bat" (which is launched from HKLM_Run) and "dos_init.bat" (which is launched on clicking a toolbar shortcut for cmd). The most logical place for these files is in "C:\", not some subfolder. And indeed, once I learned the "move" trick, it was easy to do so. I'm not sure how to do all the things you want to do with your files and folders, I never asked how to do things with files and folders, just how to create files in "C:\". And it now appears that the answer is that you can't do that, but you can create files elsewhere and *move* them to "C:\". And that's fine. Not ideal, but I can live with it. but just remember that C:\ is a protected folder. This protected area idea is not new, it just wasn't enforced before UAC came along. I'm not familiar with "UAC", but I'll look it up; thanks for the citation. But since you can copy or move any files you want to "C:\", I don't see how it's all that "protected". What's the advantage of prohibiting *creation* of files in "C:\" if you allow files to be *moved* there from elsewhere? -- Cheers, Robbie Hatley |
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Can't create new files on drive roots in Win8?
On 12/16/2013, Robbie Hatley posted:
[Verbiage and rants clipped] New to cyberspace, I take it? (Either that, or been living in a cave, or perhaps in prison, for the past 10 years?) Starting a communique with ad-hominem rhetoric right off the bat is a horrible idea; tips your hand as an asshole and a troll from the very first second and instantly mars your readers' view of you, and dramatically decreases their trust in all you say. You're welcome. Of the five groups you posted to, not one was alt.os.comp.windows-8. None of my servers carry that group. The only windows-8 group I saw listed was in Italian (a language I don't speak). *That* group might have been approriate. Perhaps. You can't use the root so easily. You can always use it for grafting. (I've been looking at the botanical pictures in the Voynich Manuscript today, you see. Also, I just like ****ing with trolls' minds. It's fun.) I see you're branching off into botany. I enjoyed that... [Further verbiage & rants from both the OP & me clipped] I did catch one of my errors, as I posted, but I missed "their" :-) Sorry you don't have alt.os.comp.windows-8 but I believe some free servers carry it, such as Aioe & Albasani. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |