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Ken Springer[_2_] May 20th 15 05:12 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I don't
follow those groups.

I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't offer
a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to me. I
know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which is
perfectly OK.

I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to another
partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create my own
special folders?

I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.

I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about doing
this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow, using
an elevated command windows.

I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching this.

But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all of
this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it would
insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add Print
Directory fix you can get from MS.

And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that I
can start from?

It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.

Thanks.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Paul[_2_] May 20th 15 08:46 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
Ken Springer wrote:
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I don't
follow those groups.

I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't offer
a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to me. I
know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which is
perfectly OK.

I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to another
partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create my own
special folders?

I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.

I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about doing
this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow, using
an elevated command windows.

I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching
this.

But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all of
this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it would
insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add Print
Directory fix you can get from MS.

And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that I
can start from?

It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.

Thanks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link

"Windows symbolic link
Main article: NTFS symbolic link

Windows Vista and later support symbolic links for
both files and directories with the command line utility

mklink

Unlike junction points, a symbolic link can also point
to a file or remote Server Message Block (SMB) network path.
Additionally, the NTFS symbolic link implementation provides
full support for cross-filesystem links. However, the
functionality enabling cross-host symbolic links requires
that the remote system also support them, which effectively
limits their support to Windows Vista and later Windows
operating systems."

So you want to try

mklink /?

for help. Something along the basic form of:

mklink fake_name_or_path real_name_or_path

Similar to the Unix

ln -s real_name_or_path fake_name_or_path

Requiring you to always read the instructions
before making a link :-) Because you are bound to
forget the order of parameters.

On your Mac, if you dropped to Terminal, you
should be able to do something like

man ln

to see how the Linux/Unix version works. That's if
you're curious about the order of the parameters.

*******

A little philosophy for you:

If making up a machine for donation, resist the
urge to be creative...

1) Leave the library pointers alone.

Moving libraries from C: to D: for example, as
a clever means to supporting some sort of backup
strategy, will break Service Pack installation.

Microsoft installation software does not tolerate
this option well, even though they put the
infrastructure in place for you to booby-trap
your installation. This is a limitation caused
by Microsoft, and it's not your fault.

2) Try not to create "unique" support jobs for
other technicians. Keep your customers best
interests in mind. If you create a "fake flavor of library",
then the customer takes the machine to Geek Squad,
maybe all the files in the clever library structure,
are erased by ham-fisted techs.

By keeping the installation bog standard, sure, maybe
the backup structure isn't as spiffy as you would like,
but you're also not booby trapping the installation
in such a way, that the Junior Geek Squad person
doesn't destroy something by accident. For example,
the Geek Squad may attempt an Upgrade Install,
overwriting the OS. Which is an instance of (1) - namely,
now your custom library will interfere with the attempt
at Upgrade Install (say, for malware flushing by hotshot
tech). The Upgrade Install will back out on its own,
the tech will get angry, and do a Clean Install.

And for anyone considering a trip to Geek Squad or
equivalent - *always* back up your computer before
taking a computer to the shop. Even if it means
using dd style "sector-by-sector" backup because
the file system is broken. Ask for help here, if you
need hints. The reason for the recommendation, is
because the shops use "script-based" treatment of
customer machines (i.e. the boss tells them to
reinstall the OS, even when it isn't needed). If
you take a computer in to have the CMOS battery changed,
a Junior Tech may reformat the hard drive and
Reinstall Windows. This has actually happened...
and more than once. Having a backup stored on an
external USB drive you keep at home, is your
protection from this sort of thing.

*******

You can do what you want with respect to your
experimental Library, but try to keep the KISS
principle in mind.

Paul

Ken Springer[_2_] May 21st 15 01:08 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
On 5/20/15 2:46 PM, Paul wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
Cross posted to 4 groups, as it probably applies to all these versions
of Windows. Probably applies to older ones and Windows 10, but I don't
follow those groups.

I've never used this "system" as created by MS. It simply doesn't offer
a categorization/organization method/means that makes sense to me. I
know a lot of people have no problems with this method, which is
perfectly OK.

I'm currently resurrecting a Vista system for donation, and as I was
relocating the personal data folders from the boot partition to another
partition, it suddenly occurred to me... Why can't I create my own
special folders?

I started experimenting on the Vista system, and all went well until I
relocated the folder I created. No can do. I can put the folder
somewhere else manually, but it won't show up in the personal folders area.

I'm still looking, but I found an article relating to Win 7 about doing
this, and apparently I need to create a "symbolic link" somehow, using
an elevated command windows.

I know nothing about symbolic links, so will have to start researching
this.

But I was wondering if anyone knows of a GUI utility that will do all of
this for me rather than a command line operation. Ideally, it would
insert itself into the OS in some manner, rather like the Add Print
Directory fix you can get from MS.

And does anyone know of a really simple article on symbolic links that I
can start from?

It would also be nice if I could add selected folders I create, or one
of the default folders, to the Start Menu.

Thanks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link

"Windows symbolic link
Main article: NTFS symbolic link

Windows Vista and later support symbolic links for
both files and directories with the command line utility

mklink

Unlike junction points, a symbolic link can also point
to a file or remote Server Message Block (SMB) network path.
Additionally, the NTFS symbolic link implementation provides
full support for cross-filesystem links. However, the
functionality enabling cross-host symbolic links requires
that the remote system also support them, which effectively
limits their support to Windows Vista and later Windows
operating systems."

So you want to try

mklink /?

for help. Something along the basic form of:

mklink fake_name_or_path real_name_or_path

Similar to the Unix

ln -s real_name_or_path fake_name_or_path

Requiring you to always read the instructions
before making a link :-) Because you are bound to
forget the order of parameters.

On your Mac, if you dropped to Terminal, you
should be able to do something like

man ln

to see how the Linux/Unix version works. That's if
you're curious about the order of the parameters.


That's a good article. I'll have to take my time and go through it a
couple of times. I didn't see actual instructions on how to create the
link, though. But I found a couple pages on the web that walks you
through it.

*******

A little philosophy for you:

If making up a machine for donation, resist the
urge to be creative...

1) Leave the library pointers alone.

Moving libraries from C: to D: for example, as
a clever means to supporting some sort of backup
strategy, will break Service Pack installation.

Microsoft installation software does not tolerate
this option well, even though they put the
infrastructure in place for you to booby-trap
your installation. This is a limitation caused
by Microsoft, and it's not your fault.


That's never been on my list for a free machine. But I would like to do
move the pointer files for libraries from C: to D: but I've never found
a way to do it similar to relocating actual data folders. But, there is
a utility out there that will backup those files for you, or you could
manually make your own copies somewhere. Then, should you have
reinstall the operating system, just copy the original files over the
new ones, and your libraries are restored.

I never liked the way the libraries worked anyway. Then I found a way
to make them work as I wanted, which made me happy.

This idea of adding additional folders is for my computer, not the ones
I donate. The Vista machine is simply available for testing the idea.

2) Try not to create "unique" support jobs for
other technicians. Keep your customers best
interests in mind. If you create a "fake flavor of library",
then the customer takes the machine to Geek Squad,
maybe all the files in the clever library structure,
are erased by ham-fisted techs.


I don't do that, no really sneaky stuff or even manual registry edits.
Just what you can do from the interface. And I always provide written
documentation for what I've done, and why.

By keeping the installation bog standard, sure, maybe
the backup structure isn't as spiffy as you would like,
but you're also not booby trapping the installation
in such a way, that the Junior Geek Squad person
doesn't destroy something by accident. For example,
the Geek Squad may attempt an Upgrade Install,
overwriting the OS. Which is an instance of (1) - namely,
now your custom library will interfere with the attempt
at Upgrade Install (say, for malware flushing by hotshot
tech). The Upgrade Install will back out on its own,
the tech will get angry, and do a Clean Install.


I always create a set of disks containing a system image, so the new
owner can put the computer back to the way it was when he first go it.
Most of the XP machines had a valid restore partition from the
manufacturer. For those that didn't, I'd create the image using EaseUS
TODO Backup, and give them an EaseUS boot disk to reinstall with. And I
always test it first.

For this Vista computer, I'm going to use Vista's Complete PC backup
system. And I've got a copy of Vista Inside Out on CD, and I'll include
the pages on how to use it.

And for anyone considering a trip to Geek Squad or
equivalent - *always* back up your computer before
taking a computer to the shop. Even if it means
using dd style "sector-by-sector" backup because
the file system is broken. Ask for help here, if you
need hints. The reason for the recommendation, is
because the shops use "script-based" treatment of
customer machines (i.e. the boss tells them to
reinstall the OS, even when it isn't needed). If
you take a computer in to have the CMOS battery changed,
a Junior Tech may reformat the hard drive and
Reinstall Windows. This has actually happened...
and more than once. Having a backup stored on an
external USB drive you keep at home, is your
protection from this sort of thing.

*******

You can do what you want with respect to your
experimental Library, but try to keep the KISS
principle in mind.


I do KISS everywhere. What I do to the computers is also a small
attempt at keeping the new owner, which I assume may never have owned a
computer before, from making such a drastic mistake they end up losing
their data too.

At least, as best I can. And at least 99.9999999999999% legal. The
only grey area that sometimes occurs is the OS disk copies I give them.
Not always sure it technically meets the EULA, but if the computer
validates with the product code that's on the label on the computer, I'm
happy. MS isn't out financially, since it's been paid for once, and the
new owners wouldn't be buying a computer anyway. And MS has another
Windows user in the flock. :-(

If you're going to steal software, Bill wanted you to steal his. LOL


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Mayayana May 21st 15 01:22 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
I guess it's all a matter of personal preference. The
"special folders" are designed to help people who
simply don't get the file system. If software defaults to
saving in the personal Docs folder then people who
have no idea of how the file system works can still
access their files.

But what if one does understand how to use Explorer?
Personally I've never used any of the special folders
or libraries stuff. My "Documents" folder has been untouched
for years. I just make folders that make sense to me. I
have an E: drive partition for graphics, for instance. In
there are folders for photos, sounds and various other topics.
I also have partitions named Closet, Attic, Back40 and
NTStorage. The latter is NTFS formatted, for storing giant
files. In Attic\Business Docs are all relevant business files,
such as logos, contract templates, etc. Back40 has backup
of software installers, SDKs, service packs, etc. I keep
shortcuts to some of my more used folders on the Desktop
and also wrote an Explorer Bar for folder windows that
provides links to several commonly used folders. (I got
that idea from MS. They did something similar in Win9x.)

Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable
and flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses
it would pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.



Ken Springer[_2_] May 21st 15 02:50 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
On 5/21/15 7:22 AM, Mayayana wrote:
I guess it's all a matter of personal preference. The
"special folders" are designed to help people who
simply don't get the file system. If software defaults to
saving in the personal Docs folder then people who
have no idea of how the file system works can still
access their files.


Exactly. But the default way of where those docs are stored pose
problems if you need or want to reinstall the operating system. Somehow,
you have to sort out your data from the OS files.

But what if one does understand how to use Explorer?


Yep. I don't think people realize that hard drive organization isn't
any different at the core than organizing the files in your filing cabinet.

As far as I'm concerned, the display of folders in the navigation pane
from XP and older Explorers is superior with what showed up in Vista and
later.

Personally I've never used any of the special folders
or libraries stuff. My "Documents" folder has been untouched
for years. I just make folders that make sense to me. I
have an E: drive partition for graphics, for instance. In
there are folders for photos, sounds and various other topics.
I also have partitions named Closet, Attic, Back40 and
NTStorage. The latter is NTFS formatted, for storing giant
files. In Attic\Business Docs are all relevant business files,
such as logos, contract templates, etc. Back40 has backup
of software installers, SDKs, service packs, etc. I keep
shortcuts to some of my more used folders on the Desktop
and also wrote an Explorer Bar for folder windows that
provides links to several commonly used folders. (I got
that idea from MS. They did something similar in Win9x.)


You, me, and one of my brothers-in-law all do this. But all of us
understand how the basics of a file system work. I think most people
don't understand that, because no one explains it in a way they understand.

I don't like desktop clutter, although this Mac has gotten way out of
hand. So I would increase the number of programs shown in the Start
Menu to the max, which pretty much solved a lot of the clutter.
Somethings I put on the Quick Launch bar in XP, and then pulled the QLB
on to the desktop where it is in a Window.

I've read the QLB is still in W7 but not displayed. There's a web page
somewhere that says how to get it back. I think it's a registry change.

Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable
and flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses
it would pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.


For general use, I totally agree.

Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time. But
I've found a way to make it do what I'm looking for, and am disappointed
MS took the separate libraries section out of the Win8 Explorer. I've
written about this before, so won't get into that again. G

Documents... If I can manage to wade through the info Paul gave me, and
then find a way to add my own special folders to the Start Menu, I'll
have that almost "bent" to my way of wanting to do things. And I can
think of a couple occupations where a user might find this more useful
to them. I won't waste reader's time on this either, unless it's requested.

It literally never occurred to me to try this until a couple of days ago.

Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.

--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Char Jackson May 21st 15 06:53 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
On Thu, 21 May 2015 08:50:42 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time.


Libraries work fine for me just as they are, but we've discussed it before.

Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.


In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)

I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.


mechanic May 21st 15 07:05 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
On Thu, 21 May 2015 09:22:10 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.


They don't call them "My" anything in Win8

Ken Blake, MVP[_2_] May 21st 15 08:13 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
On Thu, 21 May 2015 20:05:28 +0100, mechanic
wrote:

On Thu, 21 May 2015 09:22:10 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Which is all to say that the file system is *so* adaptable and
flexible that I don't see why anyone who actually uses it would
pay attention to "My *" folders or libraries.


They don't call them "My" anything in Win8



Sorry, but that's not correct. My Music, My Pictures, and My Videos
are sub-folders of Documents.


Ken Springer[_2_] May 21st 15 08:21 PM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
On 5/21/15 12:53 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2015 08:50:42 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time.


Libraries work fine for me just as they are, but we've discussed it before.


Yeppers, that we have. LOL I think that's simply because we
wanted/expected them to do different things, or at least have the
capability. You like what they natively do, I don't like those
limitations. But I found a way to make them do what I wanted, so
ultimately, we both have what we were looking/hoping for. :-)

Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.


In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)


OH, yea! LOL Never used a one of them!!! G

I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 36.0.4
Thunderbird 31.5
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

R. C. White May 22nd 15 02:50 AM

Creating personal data/special folders
 
Hi, Char.

In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)


When was the last time you printed out your biorhythms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorhythm

That was the big selling tool in the late 1970's.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro w/Media Center


"Char Jackson" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 21 May 2015 08:50:42 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

Libraries... I think the setup from MS is totally a waste of time.


Libraries work fine for me just as they are, but we've discussed it before.

Both ideas won't make you immediate gains, but would aggregate into
gains over time. Just like when computers first came out. Pretty much
useless to you until you invested the time to learn them, and after
that, daily drudgery of much paperwork and such were now easier to
accomplish.


In the beginning, I remember seeing lots of "balance your checkbook!" and
"organize your recipes!" types of claims. :-)

I don't need a computer to help me with either of those tasks, so I'm glad
that more uses were realized over time.



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