you moron

where does it say you will not be able to fax fromm this program ??????


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:

You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message ...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when we upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message ...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need to read
that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]


as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in a
"downgrade"




--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

It means that you have to check what is in the box before you buy it, check
that the version being bought fulfills all that you need.. there were two
versions of XP, Home and Pro.. there are five versions of Vista, Home basic,
Home Premium, Business, Ultimate and Enterprise..

From that it could be reasonably ascertained that there was no simple one
for one changeover.. the beta version was Ultimate which had fax included..
it appears that it was a marketing decision right at the end, and It is
difficult to understand quite why it was taken out .. it came as a surprise
to many, including me..

Unfortunately, little can be done presently.. I think that it is a little
over the top to demand one's money back just because Fax is not included,
and there are alternatives, including perhaps the program supplied with most
modems, which was generally better featured anyway.. there are ways around
without going ballistic, and I did post the link for a free alternative
within these threads..


"ripley56" wrote in message
...
you moron

where does it say you will not be able to fax fromm this program ??????


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:

You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
we upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
to read
that information very carefully before they decide on which version
to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]


as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
KNEW would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results
in a
"downgrade"




--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/




--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]


as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
a
"downgrade"




--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]


as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
a
"downgrade"




--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Just a sour grapes reply.
MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
brought it back in XP.
You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
fax capability.



Nick wrote:
The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...
"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]

as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
a
"downgrade"



--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues, however,
the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There is no
reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows other
than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the past.

"bjr" wrote:

Just a sour grapes reply.
MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
brought it back in XP.
You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
fax capability.



Nick wrote:
The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions. It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista. If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them, when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...
"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]

as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results in
a
"downgrade"



--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Other than your personal attacks on me, I quite agree with you. This whole
fiasco is yet another example of how Microsoft's marketing strategy can be
bad for its customers and can compromise what would otherwise be a great
product. Marketing clearly blew it on Vista Fax. They had no clue who
actually uses the Windows fax module (and we all could easily have told them
if they had had the humility to ask). The LEAST likely users to need the
Windows Fax module are the business users. It is not robust, reliable or
full featured enough for businesses and never has been. So who uses it? Home
users who only need to send an occasional fax and don't want to have to
invest in enterprise fax solutions. Yet those are the very users they
discarded, and you have to read the fine print to discover that.

So there. Now is that "helpful?" Not in the least. It changes nothing and
helps no one. The only thing we can do here that will help people is to
advise them to read that fine print and research their OS purchase decisions
as carefully as they do their other purchase decisions. So that's what I've
done. If you find that "insulting," then so be it. Do something more
helpful. Personal attacks on others contribute nothing to these groups.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Nick" wrote in message
...
The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe that
they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to pay
the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny
that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's
skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear your
MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can
only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint
in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different versions.
It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your
XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista.
If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has
the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car. Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does
this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote
in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them,
when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which version
to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute
if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]


as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually results
in
a
"downgrade"




--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Nick

Nobody would buy Vista Ultimate or Business edition just to get Fax surely?
Most home users ran BVRP supplied with their modem, or Winfax/Pro.. if one
suggested using Windows Fax, most either didn't know it was there, or
scoffed at its simplicity..

Why is it such an issue now?


"Nick" wrote in message
news
Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues,
however,
the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There is
no
reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows
other
than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the
past.

"bjr" wrote:

Just a sour grapes reply.
MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
brought it back in XP.
You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
fax capability.



Nick wrote:
The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe
that they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody
can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to
pay the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny
that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's
skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people
posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear
your MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can
only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are
with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my
post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to
Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous
posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the
marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would
have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint
in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different
versions. It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your
XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista.
If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has
the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car.
Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this
as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does
this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote
in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them,
when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which
version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...
"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute
if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]

as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually
results in
a
"downgrade"



--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/







--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Its an issue because BVRP is gone, as is Winfax. In the end, in my case,
we're left with angry customers that, yes, don't read the fine print, but
still expect the features they had before. And after they've spent hundreds
or thousands of dollars only to get home and in the course of using their
PC's the way the want, find out that they are "fax-less".

Of course they come back to us and I can respond that they should have read
the feature list or I could offer to sell them something else, which just
seems like adding insult to injury. Without turning this into any more of a
rant than it already is... the bottom line is that msft has dropped the ball
on a small and not so costly feature that is costing me time and money to
find a work around that is acceptable to the casual user. With BVRP and
Winfax dead, its even harder.

"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:

Nick

Nobody would buy Vista Ultimate or Business edition just to get Fax surely?
Most home users ran BVRP supplied with their modem, or Winfax/Pro.. if one
suggested using Windows Fax, most either didn't know it was there, or
scoffed at its simplicity..

Why is it such an issue now?


"Nick" wrote in message
news
Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues,
however,
the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There is
no
reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows
other
than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the
past.

"bjr" wrote:

Just a sour grapes reply.
MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
brought it back in XP.
You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista. Russ
and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you needed
fax capability.



Nick wrote:
The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe
that they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody
can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected to
pay the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may deny
that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated user's
skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people
posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear
your MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We can
only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are
with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my
post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to
Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous
posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the
marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would
have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same complaint
in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different
versions. It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature your
XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to Vista.
If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version has
the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car.
Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in this
as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed. Does
this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote
in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose them,
when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which
version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...
"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to contibribute
if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]

as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what they
KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually
results in
a
"downgrade"



--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/







--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/

Being on the frontline is not always fun, I will admit.. and agreed that it
does seem silly to drop Fax regardless of whether or not most home users
didn't use it.. maybe somebody will take the decision to supply it through
WU..

The best that any of us can do now is to recommend alternatives and ensure
that we are smiling as we do so..

"Nick" wrote in message
...
Its an issue because BVRP is gone, as is Winfax. In the end, in my case,
we're left with angry customers that, yes, don't read the fine print, but
still expect the features they had before. And after they've spent
hundreds
or thousands of dollars only to get home and in the course of using their
PC's the way the want, find out that they are "fax-less".

Of course they come back to us and I can respond that they should have
read
the feature list or I could offer to sell them something else, which just
seems like adding insult to injury. Without turning this into any more of
a
rant than it already is... the bottom line is that msft has dropped the
ball
on a small and not so costly feature that is costing me time and money to
find a work around that is acceptable to the casual user. With BVRP and
Winfax dead, its even harder.

"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User" wrote:

Nick

Nobody would buy Vista Ultimate or Business edition just to get Fax
surely?
Most home users ran BVRP supplied with their modem, or Winfax/Pro.. if
one
suggested using Windows Fax, most either didn't know it was there, or
scoffed at its simplicity..

Why is it such an issue now?


"Nick" wrote in message
news
Sour grapes? I own a retail PC store. I am aware of these issues,
however,
the mass majority is not. Nor do they know of these newsgroups. There
is
no
reason for microsoft to remove faxing from the home edition of Windows
other
than to try to squeeze money from users that have relied on it in the
past.

"bjr" wrote:

Just a sour grapes reply.
MS also removed the built-in fax from Millennium (was in Win 98) and
brought it back in XP.
You should have asked in these newsgroups BEFORE you bought Vista.
Russ
and others could have told you to get Ultimate or Business if you
needed
fax capability.



Nick wrote:
The bottom line is that MSFT is selling Vista as the great new OS
and
everyone should go out and get it. Lemmings or not, people believe
that they
will get an "Upgrade" for upgrading. "Read more carefully"? Nobody
can
possibly think to check off each individual feature that is or is
not
included in each version. Beyond that, should someone be expected
to
pay the
extreme price that Ultimate is at just for fax?

I find your responses typical of most "experts" in the field.
Unsympathetic, mostly unhelpful, and somewhat insulting. You may
deny
that
your responses are in no way intended to get under a frustrated
user's
skin,
however, you know that's not true. And if you are tired of people
posting
the same old complaints, skip over the title when you see it. Wear
your MVP
tag proudly.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

It does not matter "who I am with." None of us can change this. We
can
only
state what is and alert others.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"ripley56" wrote in message
...
The developers wanted to keep the fax in home premium, so who are
you
with,
the developers or the marketing people, because the developers are
with
us,
and let’s face it, without the developers we would still be using
calculators.

"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote:

What an odd and insulting response. You are free to interpret my
post
however you wish. I suspect few would interpret it as you did.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Dan" wrote in message
...
So basically now your are calling people idiots in your humble
opinion
for
not only assuming they would not lose anything by upgrading to
Vista
but
also by upgrading to Vista period.
Mister if you wish to run around using your so called title as a
badge
you
best learn a little something about marketing.
When people are upset you do not go poking them with a stick.
I still stand by Microsoft but some of the people using MVP need
to
grow
up.


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
I wouldn't say you aren't being heard. There are now numerous
posts
from
people with the same complaint which have received a number of
sympathetic
replies, including a remarkably candid response from a
Microsoft
employee
who said the feature list for each version was made by the
marketing
department at the last minute, not by the developers who would
have
preferred the fax module go into all versions.
We have far exceeded the point where reposting the same
complaint
in a
peer-to-peer group will accomplish anything. The take home
message
here
remains:
1. Vista is a completely new OS with completely different
versions. It
is
naive to assume that the version you used in XP is in any way
equivalent
to the version you would want in Vista and that every feature
your
XP
version had would remain in Vista.
2. Research carefully whether you even need to "upgrade" to
Vista.
If
you
decide you do, then research even more carefully which version
has
the
features you need. You do that when you upgrade your TV or car.
Why
wouldn't you do so when you update your OS?

Watching people rush to Vista has been like watching lemmings
jump
into
the sea. In my world, a new OS from Microsoft belongs on a test
partition
for at least 2 years until the applications we use even have a
chance
to
work with it.

Just curious. What were the reasons you found that were so
compelling
that you needed to update to Vista right away?
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
You're not hearing those of us who aren't as well versed in
this
as
you
are. When we upgrade, we expect to get new things, not lose
things
that
worked perfectly. What was on the box (though I ordered online
after
doing the whole "readiness" thing), told me what Vista had. It
didn't
tell me that Vista would disable things already installed.
Does
this
make sense to you? Previously, when I upgraded, features didn't
disappear--or didn't seem to. They got better, faster...but
were
there.
Now, I have actually gotten less for my money than I have
previously.
And that really bothers me.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User"
wrote
in
message ...
You should expect what the box tells you is contained therein..
"Cyn" wrote in message
...
We read all that. We just expect to GAIN things, not lose
them,
when
we
upgrade.

--
Cynthia Dagnal Myron
Faculty
Axia/Western International University
Associate Programs


520-241-0126
Pacific Time


"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
The features included with each version are not a secret. Users
need
to
read
that information very carefully before they decide on which
version to
choose. Caveat emptor.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]
"johnm" wrote in message
...
"Russ Valentine [MVP-Outlook]" wrote in
message
...
Multiple posts exist on this subject. Feel free to
contibribute
if
you
have anything to add to those posts. So far, you haven't.
--
Russ Valentine
[MVP-Outlook]

as haven't you..... smartass

to the OP, try http://www.snappysoftware.com/
look for Snappy Fax, works with Vista

funny though, why MS decided to remove a feature from what
they
KNEW
would
be their top seller.
just one more example of how "upgrading" to Vista actually
results in
a
"downgrade"



--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/







--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/





--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/