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Windows Vista File Management Issues or questions in relation to Vista's file management. (microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management) |
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Indexing Bug ????
I don't understand why you say there is no apparent way to turn off
Indexing. It's a simple service that you DO have control over by going to Start, typing in services, clicking on Services, scroll down to Windows Search, stop the service, then disable it. Now Indexing is turned off, you do not need to reboot, it's off, END OF STORY! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. |
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Indexing Bug ????
I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try and
find a way to fix this BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |
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Indexing Bug ????
Dear Martin,
I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego, please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is definitly not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it. 1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event viewer? It's in Control Panel - Administrative tools - Event Viewer (or you can Start-Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer (Local) - Windows Logs - Application. To make the log show Search events only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check "Search" under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events. 2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an entry in Control Panel - Problems and Solutions - View Problem History. Its entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a memory snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server. Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and send me the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's going on. Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal internal state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I won't be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an extra entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the problem". You can email them to me directly. There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but they are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first. Thanks, Ilia "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try and find a way to fix this BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |
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Indexing Bug ????
Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet...
I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup. I would suggest you start researching... By the way my indexing took more time than yours. The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest hardware and are detached from the "real world" On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is with 512 mb ram the indexing would take weeks. I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I was since I first saw the programs that attempted this... and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good... every time I removed them, disgusted. Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several others I dont even remember what their names are. Whatever is out there.. I have tried. I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so almost no search is needed... EVER. I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98... simple.. the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option in the control panel is not enough. You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having trained hundreds of people on computer use, I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful. XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus you are creating much confusion. Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat yourselves on the back for doing a good job. I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the GUI of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui interface itself. I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone. Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the problems. I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for the GUI, for free. "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |
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Indexing Bug ????
Most people dont even know what a service is my friend.. lol
Windows is for the world.. that includes children, and old people... You have to make things easy for them. "Billy" wrote in message ... I don't understand why you say there is no apparent way to turn off Indexing. It's a simple service that you DO have control over by going to Start, typing in services, clicking on Services, scroll down to Windows Search, stop the service, then disable it. Now Indexing is turned off, you do not need to reboot, it's off, END OF STORY! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. |
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Indexing Bug ????
Dear Cap. Kirk,
I'm deeply touched by your concern for Windows users, and I'm always happy to hear constructive criticism. I very much doubt that trolling on the forums where users come for help is going to help them though. You are asking us to consider your position and I can see your point. But please consider ours as well: - Customers won't pay for 1998 experience in 2007. You can't keep a collection of documents in an immaculate order if several people are working on it, or even if it's just big enough (emails). You can't fit an arbitrary classification in a hierarchical structure such as a directory tree, you've gotta have a dynamic view of data. Indexer allows that, file system doesn't. We don't do it just for fun, there are very compelling and demanded scenarios that index enables. - Power comes at a price. If we write a fast indexer it's going to consume more resources, so everything will be slower, can't have that. If we write indexer that only runs on demand, it won't be up to date. If we just stick to GREP like in XP it will be way too slow to enable them scenarios. We hope to do what will please most users out of the box, but we can't please everyone, as some goals are mutually exclusive. - Specifically, we can never please the power users. Even though they are the ones generating most feedback, they are a but a tiny minority, and their needs are so special that pleasing them is going to upset pretty much everyone else. A classic example is searching for system/hidden files or text in DLLs in System32 - how many users want to see ntkernel or ini files in their search results? I know I would... - Even the amount of rope we provide today may be too much. "Let's index everything! Let's play a 3d game while at it! Why is it taking forever? Indexer sucks!" - perhaps we haven't hidden Indexing Options deep enough. It's really sad sometimes. Consider Natural Query Sintax: "email from Ilia about indexing sent last week" could do exactly what you'd think is too good to be true to happen. Did you know that? No? Thought so. - Most users get Vista with new boxes, and these don't come with 800Mhz/512Mb. It's hard enough to provide high end experience even on a high end hardware. If you dare running it on 800Mhz, well, you better be patient. Given that retail Athlon 64 x2 3600+ is sold on newegg for $73, I wouldn't call our requirements an ivory tower. Like you said, we are writing an OS for the masses, so we have to make choices that would please the masses, and so do other companies which solve the same problem. Evidently they are not cutting the mustard for you, can't say I'm that surprised. But it doesn't mean that the idea is flawed in principle. I'd like to help you improve your experience, maybe you'll reconsider. Also, thank you for offering to draw mockups, we can't accept any such help for legal reasons. Here's another idea for you. It's fairly trivial to query the index from VB.Net or C# code. Perhaps instead of mockups you could write your own client for the indexer and post it on your own website, and show us all how it's done. I'd gladly assit you You could start he http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/def...ID=25&SiteID=1 Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet... I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup. I would suggest you start researching... By the way my indexing took more time than yours. The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest hardware and are detached from the "real world" On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is with 512 mb ram the indexing would take weeks. I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I was since I first saw the programs that attempted this... and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good... every time I removed them, disgusted. Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several others I dont even remember what their names are. Whatever is out there.. I have tried. I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so almost no search is needed... EVER. I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98... simple.. the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option in the control panel is not enough. You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having trained hundreds of people on computer use, I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful. XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus you are creating much confusion. Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat yourselves on the back for doing a good job. I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the GUI of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui interface itself. I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone. Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the problems. I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for the GUI, for free. "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |
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Indexing Bug ????
There is a problem... the design should not be left to programmers. You are
talking technical, and although I can follow, you are missing all the point. The concepts and gui's should be left to people who are trained as designers like industrial designers, artists, and specialists in human machine interaction but these people must understand how computers work, without needing however to know all the details of programming. Basically a new breed of people are needed that are good at design, creativity and understand what a computer can do and how to achieve it. We are talking about Leonardo da Vinci like people who have strong right and left brain thinking combined. Also I believe that much research with teams of people must be done in models before making the actual interfaces. Only through experimentation with mock semi-working models can you be sure what works best or not. As you can see, I am talking about a combination of creativity with the scientific process. Microsoft has the money and resources do to such things. There is lack of design concept and human friendliness in all the changes in vista. When I say design I dont mean glass borders and filp 3d effects.. I mean functional design that provides workflow and usability ... with 2 words.. intuative interfaces. That's my 2 cents. I know you will ignore it, but I had to give you the correct reply. Now throw it away. "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I'm deeply touched by your concern for Windows users, and I'm always happy to hear constructive criticism. I very much doubt that trolling on the forums where users come for help is going to help them though. You are asking us to consider your position and I can see your point. But please consider ours as well: - Customers won't pay for 1998 experience in 2007. You can't keep a collection of documents in an immaculate order if several people are working on it, or even if it's just big enough (emails). You can't fit an arbitrary classification in a hierarchical structure such as a directory tree, you've gotta have a dynamic view of data. Indexer allows that, file system doesn't. We don't do it just for fun, there are very compelling and demanded scenarios that index enables. - Power comes at a price. If we write a fast indexer it's going to consume more resources, so everything will be slower, can't have that. If we write indexer that only runs on demand, it won't be up to date. If we just stick to GREP like in XP it will be way too slow to enable them scenarios. We hope to do what will please most users out of the box, but we can't please everyone, as some goals are mutually exclusive. - Specifically, we can never please the power users. Even though they are the ones generating most feedback, they are a but a tiny minority, and their needs are so special that pleasing them is going to upset pretty much everyone else. A classic example is searching for system/hidden files or text in DLLs in System32 - how many users want to see ntkernel or ini files in their search results? I know I would... - Even the amount of rope we provide today may be too much. "Let's index everything! Let's play a 3d game while at it! Why is it taking forever? Indexer sucks!" - perhaps we haven't hidden Indexing Options deep enough. It's really sad sometimes. Consider Natural Query Sintax: "email from Ilia about indexing sent last week" could do exactly what you'd think is too good to be true to happen. Did you know that? No? Thought so. - Most users get Vista with new boxes, and these don't come with 800Mhz/512Mb. It's hard enough to provide high end experience even on a high end hardware. If you dare running it on 800Mhz, well, you better be patient. Given that retail Athlon 64 x2 3600+ is sold on newegg for $73, I wouldn't call our requirements an ivory tower. Like you said, we are writing an OS for the masses, so we have to make choices that would please the masses, and so do other companies which solve the same problem. Evidently they are not cutting the mustard for you, can't say I'm that surprised. But it doesn't mean that the idea is flawed in principle. I'd like to help you improve your experience, maybe you'll reconsider. Also, thank you for offering to draw mockups, we can't accept any such help for legal reasons. Here's another idea for you. It's fairly trivial to query the index from VB.Net or C# code. Perhaps instead of mockups you could write your own client for the indexer and post it on your own website, and show us all how it's done. I'd gladly assit you You could start he http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/def...ID=25&SiteID=1 Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet... I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup. I would suggest you start researching... By the way my indexing took more time than yours. The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest hardware and are detached from the "real world" On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is with 512 mb ram the indexing would take weeks. I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I was since I first saw the programs that attempted this... and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good... every time I removed them, disgusted. Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several others I dont even remember what their names are. Whatever is out there.. I have tried. I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so almost no search is needed... EVER. I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98... simple.. the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option in the control panel is not enough. You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having trained hundreds of people on computer use, I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful. XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus you are creating much confusion. Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat yourselves on the back for doing a good job. I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the GUI of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui interface itself. I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone. Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the problems. I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for the GUI, for free. "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |
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Indexing Bug ????
One more thing, for a long time, I have been tempted to show in a graphical
manner (video) what I have in mind about "the vista that should have been". Only if I show you graphically can I get the message across. Or you can say about changes that could be done on the next version of windows... I can make these on a site as a "hypothetical improvement" on vista... and anyone will be free to "borrow" any concept they may like. I don't want money... I don't care... if anyone sees it over there and likes the ideas they can use them or change them and make your own variations. "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I'm deeply touched by your concern for Windows users, and I'm always happy to hear constructive criticism. I very much doubt that trolling on the forums where users come for help is going to help them though. You are asking us to consider your position and I can see your point. But please consider ours as well: - Customers won't pay for 1998 experience in 2007. You can't keep a collection of documents in an immaculate order if several people are working on it, or even if it's just big enough (emails). You can't fit an arbitrary classification in a hierarchical structure such as a directory tree, you've gotta have a dynamic view of data. Indexer allows that, file system doesn't. We don't do it just for fun, there are very compelling and demanded scenarios that index enables. - Power comes at a price. If we write a fast indexer it's going to consume more resources, so everything will be slower, can't have that. If we write indexer that only runs on demand, it won't be up to date. If we just stick to GREP like in XP it will be way too slow to enable them scenarios. We hope to do what will please most users out of the box, but we can't please everyone, as some goals are mutually exclusive. - Specifically, we can never please the power users. Even though they are the ones generating most feedback, they are a but a tiny minority, and their needs are so special that pleasing them is going to upset pretty much everyone else. A classic example is searching for system/hidden files or text in DLLs in System32 - how many users want to see ntkernel or ini files in their search results? I know I would... - Even the amount of rope we provide today may be too much. "Let's index everything! Let's play a 3d game while at it! Why is it taking forever? Indexer sucks!" - perhaps we haven't hidden Indexing Options deep enough. It's really sad sometimes. Consider Natural Query Sintax: "email from Ilia about indexing sent last week" could do exactly what you'd think is too good to be true to happen. Did you know that? No? Thought so. - Most users get Vista with new boxes, and these don't come with 800Mhz/512Mb. It's hard enough to provide high end experience even on a high end hardware. If you dare running it on 800Mhz, well, you better be patient. Given that retail Athlon 64 x2 3600+ is sold on newegg for $73, I wouldn't call our requirements an ivory tower. Like you said, we are writing an OS for the masses, so we have to make choices that would please the masses, and so do other companies which solve the same problem. Evidently they are not cutting the mustard for you, can't say I'm that surprised. But it doesn't mean that the idea is flawed in principle. I'd like to help you improve your experience, maybe you'll reconsider. Also, thank you for offering to draw mockups, we can't accept any such help for legal reasons. Here's another idea for you. It's fairly trivial to query the index from VB.Net or C# code. Perhaps instead of mockups you could write your own client for the indexer and post it on your own website, and show us all how it's done. I'd gladly assit you You could start he http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/def...ID=25&SiteID=1 Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... Ilia.. the same problems are being reported all over the internet... I have seen at least 2 more such incidents discussed in this newsgroup. I would suggest you start researching... By the way my indexing took more time than yours. The problem with Microsoft developers is that they have the latest hardware and are detached from the "real world" On a machine that "supports" vista, a 800 MHz machine what ever it is with 512 mb ram the indexing would take weeks. I am against indexing hard drives. There are too many problems... sorry I was since I first saw the programs that attempted this... and I have tried them all expecting to see something that is good... every time I removed them, disgusted. Google desktop, copernic, Windows desktop search for XP, and several others I dont even remember what their names are. Whatever is out there.. I have tried. I finally decided to organize my files in a very intelligent manner so almost no search is needed... EVER. I my opinion the best search that Microsoft EVER HAD was on windows 98... simple.. the one on vista has the worst GUI I have ever seen. The turn off option in the control panel is not enough. You are forgetting that you are making an OS for the masses... having trained hundreds of people on computer use, I know that your option is hidden too much to be useful. XP was an OS that had a simpler GUI for people to understand. Sorry its true.. in vista by hidding stuff ESPECIALLY the menus you are creating much confusion. Sorry to be harsh and critical.. but its better for you to know that pat yourselves on the back for doing a good job. I would suggest you guys rethink everything from start.. including the GUI of the search, and to add some option apparent to on the search gui interface itself. I have no other reason to say all this, all I care about is to see better products from microsoft that will be usefull to everyone. Its not about me... I know how to do anything I want and avoid the problems. I would gladly produce image mock ups of how a better design would be for the GUI, for free. "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |
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Indexing Bug ????
THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt when I
did perform searches "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Martin, I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego, please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is definitly not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it. 1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event viewer? It's in Control Panel - Administrative tools - Event Viewer (or you can Start-Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer (Local) - Windows Logs - Application. To make the log show Search events only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check "Search" under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events. 2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an entry in Control Panel - Problems and Solutions - View Problem History. Its entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a memory snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server. Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and send me the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's going on. Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal internal state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I won't be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an extra entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the problem". You can email them to me directly. There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but they are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first. Thanks, Ilia "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try and find a way to fix this BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |
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Indexing Bug ????
Last night the indexing finished, and this mornning I tried the same search
as before and it still find the files in both location BTW. I just realised when I ran the search this morning that I'm using the TAG attribute to search those files "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... THe event viewer's got nothing releated to Indexing or search, execpt when I did perform searches "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Martin, I was addressing my reply to "kirk jim". Unless this is your alter-ego, please be assured that I haven't had you in mind Something is definitly not well with your Vista, and we need to get to the bottom of it. 1) Could you check if there are any interesting events in the event viewer? It's in Control Panel - Administrative tools - Event Viewer (or you can Start-Run eventvwr.msc). Search Service events are under Event Viewer (Local) - Windows Logs - Application. To make the log show Search events only, choose "Filter Current Log..." on the Action Panel, and check "Search" under Event source. We are interested in Warning or Error events. 2) If the service or one of its sandbox processes crash, it creates an entry in Control Panel - Problems and Solutions - View Problem History. Its entries would be under Search Indexer, Search Protocol Host and Search Filter Host. If the Status column says "Report Sent", then we have a memory snapshots (a.k.a. crash dumps) of your indexer somewhere on our server. Right click on one of the entries, choose View Problem Details, and send me the BucketID. I'll try to find that particular dump and see what's going on. Note that they contain very little data (stack trace and minimal internal state), so even if it was indexing your tax report when it crashed I won't be able to read it. If the Status is Not Reported, there should be an extra entry in View Problem Details titled "Files that help describe the problem". You can email them to me directly. There are other, more powerful ways to diagnose the indexer issues, but they are likely to expose your data, so let's try these first. Thanks, Ilia "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... I'm sorry if I started a war here, but all I wanted to do was to try and find a way to fix this BTW. you asked if the indexing is done, the answer is NO, I have so far over 463670 items indexed, and it still going on. I have Vista installed since 1 February, and the indexing was never finished yet "Ilia Sacson [MS]" wrote in message ... Dear Cap. Kirk, I have about 2 millions of items in my index (a few years of email and lots of source code), your puny 50K of PDFs got nothing on it. Unless your 200Gb is mostly text (like my stuff), item sizes don't matter either since there's not much to index in a movie or "other downloads". So, my data corpus is bigger than yours, and in principle it should take longer to finish indexing it. It takes about 3 days to rebuild my index, that should be fairly representative of a move performance, and in my opinion it's not too bad. And yes you can opt out. Open Indexing Options control panel, Modify..., Show all locations, uncheck everything and click OK, done. Although I can't imagine my work without being able to search. There are no known issues with file moves, so we'd like to figure out what Martin run into and if there really is a bug - fix it for the next version. Knowing if the index is idle would be a great start. I don't see a reason to start a flame war here, if you need one that is. Best regards, Ilia "kirk jim" wrote in message ... I recently moved, rename and shifted around 200 gb of files, that include 50.000 pdf books, 1000 movie files, and thousands of other downloads and other files. Now tell me smarty pants.. how will vista cope with all those changes? I have seen that indexing becomes useless when people have too many files and shift them around too much. Not only useless, it also slows the computer down, makes the hard drive thrash for days if not weeks, and gives you erroneous results! Indexing should have been available as an ADD on, IF you wanted it. Not turned on be default with no apparent way to turn the frikin thing off. "...winston" wrote in message ... The index should update it in time. I duplicated your issue on two machines...the information was provided as an option. One one machine with a few thousand files indexed it updated in about 2 minutes. On the other with other partitions also indexed, it took about 15 minutes. If nothing else is wrong(ref Dave Wood [MS] post)the folder can be removed from the index then added to index to force the update if you don't wish to wait. ..winston "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... But the folder do still exist, all I did was to move some files from that folder to another folder, but the search still show those files as being in both location, in folder 1 and folder 2, but they no longer exist in folder 1 only in folder 2. So everytime that someone what to move files from one place to another he MUST rebuild the entire index ???? Thats not very usefull, because in the Windows Desktop Seach, the index was automatically updated, why would Microsoft not use the same system in Vista -- ----- Thank you in advance Merci a l'avance Martin "...winston" wrote in message ... To add.. If the folder is added to the search index and later moved or deleted, it must be recreated in the original location to be removed from the index since it will remain in the index but not in the 'browse' option. ..winston "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" wrote in message ... Give this a try: Click Start type Indexing Options hit Enter click Modify click Show All Locations expand C: and browse to the folder in which the files were previously located. Uncheck it, click OK Close. -- Andre Blog: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com My Vista Quickstart Guide: http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog...3DB!9709.entry "Martin Racette" wrote in message ... Hi, I think that I found a bug in the Indexing service, I after I installed VIsta, it started to index all of my documents files, which is great, but about 2 weeks ago I found that I did not place some files where they belong so I moved them, but now when I use the Search, it find those files in both the old and the new folder. I did checked the old folder where those files were before and they're not there anymore, they're really into the new folder where I want them. How do I fix this without rebuilding the entire index -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin -- Thank You in Advance Merci a l'avance Martin |