So, you are suggesting that there is no need for 3rd party anti spyware if
it places sites (they all do) in the restricted zone?

SpySweeper also places many there. Removing "all" the sites is crippling
what the anti spyware programs do. May as well uninstall them all after
cleaning out the restricted zone as they will no longer do what you expect
them to do.

At this point I have no problem with SpySweeper so I will leave it in place,
restricted sites and all. It is only SpyBot Search and Destroy that causes
the problem.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"WTC" wrote in message
...
I do not know what Sites are added by what programs but Spybot adds a lot
of them. I just removed them all after a backup of course and the problem
went away. Having 12,000+ sites in the restrictive zone will eventually
cause problems. From what I heard, 12,000 malware sites is a very small
percentage of what is actually out there.

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
grin

You post this NOW, after I spend 6 days. How do you know which program
placed the sites in the restricted area when many people have multiple
anti spyware programs installed. Many put web sites there.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"WTC" wrote in message
...
All you need to do is remove the Restricted Sites from IE Options and
the problem is gone, there was no need for a complete re-install. Seen
many computers affected by this and this is how I fixed the problem.

HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Cur rentVersion\Internet
Settings\ZoneMap\Domains
And
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Internet
Settings\ZoneMap\Domains

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by
this update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista,
Windows Mail had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use.
Clicking on a post in the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the
text in the bottom. Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to
bring us a usable reply window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same
2-4 seconds.

I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me
six days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use,
rebooting and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my
system after every successful program install so I could go back easily
when I found a problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it
in place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for
Vista. It just happened to work.

Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of
KB931768

I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then
ran through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for
Spybot S&D. I again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it
previously had (no discernible problems or slow downs).

I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to
apply the updates for the program.

I again started Windows Mail.

*****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

Windows Mail had been broken!

Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their
glory!

Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless
thousands of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and
Destroy (even with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and
take you back to where you were previously. Uninstalling and then using
System Restore may - if you have just installed Spybot S&D and made no
changes to your system since. I doubt if too many people would fall
into this category.

Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have
to rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to
install Spybot Search and Destroy.

I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate
placement problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be
testing for that as soon as I place this post in the suitable
newsgroups. I will also be testing for this under Windows XP when I
recover from the total exhaustion I have been working under for the
past 24 hours. (-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

I am not suggesting not using anti-spyware products but rather not having a
large amount (like 12,000+) web sites in the restriction zone. Maybe Sandi's
blog will help you understand what is going on:

http://msmvps.com/blogs/spywaresucks...13/901386.aspx

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
So, you are suggesting that there is no need for 3rd party anti spyware if
it places sites (they all do) in the restricted zone?

SpySweeper also places many there. Removing "all" the sites is crippling
what the anti spyware programs do. May as well uninstall them all after
cleaning out the restricted zone as they will no longer do what you expect
them to do.

At this point I have no problem with SpySweeper so I will leave it in
place, restricted sites and all. It is only SpyBot Search and Destroy that
causes the problem.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"WTC" wrote in message
...
I do not know what Sites are added by what programs but Spybot adds a lot
of them. I just removed them all after a backup of course and the problem
went away. Having 12,000+ sites in the restrictive zone will eventually
cause problems. From what I heard, 12,000 malware sites is a very small
percentage of what is actually out there.

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
grin

You post this NOW, after I spend 6 days. How do you know which program
placed the sites in the restricted area when many people have multiple
anti spyware programs installed. Many put web sites there.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"WTC" wrote in message
...
All you need to do is remove the Restricted Sites from IE Options and
the problem is gone, there was no need for a complete re-install. Seen
many computers affected by this and this is how I fixed the problem.

HKEY_USERS\.DEFAULT\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Cur rentVersion\Internet
Settings\ZoneMap\Domains
And
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Internet
Settings\ZoneMap\Domains

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by
this update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista,
Windows Mail had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use.
Clicking on a post in the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show
the text in the bottom. Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds
to bring us a usable reply window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the
same 2-4 seconds.

I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me
six days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use,
rebooting and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my
system after every successful program install so I could go back
easily when I found a problem. All it took was loads of time and
testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it
in place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for
Vista. It just happened to work.

Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of
KB931768

I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then
ran through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for
Spybot S&D. I again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it
previously had (no discernible problems or slow downs).

I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to
apply the updates for the program.

I again started Windows Mail.

*****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

Windows Mail had been broken!

Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their
glory!

Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless
thousands of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and
Destroy (even with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and
take you back to where you were previously. Uninstalling and then
using System Restore may - if you have just installed Spybot S&D and
made no changes to your system since. I doubt if too many people would
fall into this category.

Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have
to rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to
install Spybot Search and Destroy.

I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate
placement problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be
testing for that as soon as I place this post in the suitable
newsgroups. I will also be testing for this under Windows XP when I
recover from the total exhaustion I have been working under for the
past 24 hours. (-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Richard Urban wrote:

It took me six
days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use,
rebooting and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my
system after every successful program install so I could go back easily
when I found a problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

And you are constantly arguing about how productive it is to use Vista.
ROFL, 6 days of screwing around like that doesn't appear to be too
productive to me. And lo and behold, the problem ended up being one of the
condoms you put on Vista to try and keep it secure. And you keep telling us
how great Vista is and how much you love using it. You sure you haven't
stopped taking your meds? You and Dr. Frank need to get together. You guys
can have fun buckling up those white jackets, with long sleeves that strap
together behind your back.

Love and Kisses,
Doris


--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Title Says It All ... http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl

WTC wrote:

I do not know what Sites are added by what programs but Spybot adds a lot
of them. I just removed them all after a backup of course and the problem
went away. Having 12,000+ sites in the restrictive zone will eventually
cause problems. From what I heard, 12,000 malware sites is a very small
percentage of what is actually out there.

Yep, seems like a pretty vain hope to try and protect ones computer by
keeping a list as large as that of sites that shouldn't be visited. Why not
just move on over to a secure operating system? Then you can do away with
all this nonsense and the need to wear multi-condoms to try and protect
your system.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Title Says It All ... http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl

Richard Urban wrote:

God! That would take me another 24 hours, sifting through the thousands of
registry entries.

Besides, I have to finish rebuilding my system. I still have another 40 or
so programs and applets to install.



Hopefully you'll get it rebuilt one day and be able to tell us again how
great it is to use Vista. How long do you expect it'll take to get those 40
or so programs installed?

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Title Says It All ... http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl

Richard Urban wrote:

I emailed the identical post to Spybot for their knowledge.

I hope there's someone around to pick the poor fella off the floor when he
finishes reading your email. I'm sure he'll ROFL. Thankfully, I had my
seatbelt on before reading your original post. Can never be too safe around
a Vista newsgroup you know.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2
Title Says It All ... http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl

Windows Defender manages to do an equivalent job without
adding anything to the Restricted sites listing.

Gary VanderMolen

"WTC" wrote in message ...
I am not suggesting not using anti-spyware products but rather not having a large amount (like 12,000+) web sites in the
restriction zone. Maybe Sandi's blog will help you understand what is going on:

http://msmvps.com/blogs/spywaresucks...13/901386.aspx

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

"Richard Urban" wrote in message ...
So, you are suggesting that there is no need for 3rd party anti spyware if it places sites (they all do) in the restricted
zone?

SpySweeper also places many there. Removing "all" the sites is crippling what the anti spyware programs do. May as well
uninstall them all after cleaning out the restricted zone as they will no longer do what you expect them to do.

At this point I have no problem with SpySweeper so I will leave it in place, restricted sites and all. It is only SpyBot Search
and Destroy that causes the problem.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"WTC" wrote in message ...
I do not know what Sites are added by what programs but Spybot adds a lot of them. I just removed them all after a backup of
course and the problem went away. Having 12,000+ sites in the restrictive zone will eventually cause problems. From what I
heard, 12,000 malware sites is a very small percentage of what is actually out there.

--
William Crawford
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

Thanks

--

http://www.goldwatches.com/watches.asp?Brand=39
"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by
this update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista,
Windows Mail had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use. Clicking
on a post in the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the text in the
bottom. Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to bring us a usable
reply window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same 2-4 seconds.

I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me six
days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use,
rebooting and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my
system after every successful program install so I could go back easily
when I found a problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it in
place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for Vista.
It just happened to work.

Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of KB931768

I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then ran
through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for Spybot S&D.
I again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it previously had (no
discernible problems or slow downs).

I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to
apply the updates for the program.

I again started Windows Mail.

*****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

Windows Mail had been broken!

Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their glory!

Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless
thousands of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and
Destroy (even with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and
take you back to where you were previously. Uninstalling and then using
System Restore may - if you have just installed Spybot S&D and made no
changes to your system since. I doubt if too many people would fall into
this category.

Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have to
rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to install
Spybot Search and Destroy.

I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate placement
problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be testing for
that as soon as I place this post in the suitable newsgroups. I will also
be testing for this under Windows XP when I recover from the total
exhaustion I have been working under for the past 24 hours. (-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

Richard,
Nice find.. Wtg!!
Just a few points on Spybot to echo your comments and put a few more items
in perspective.
1. In a default install with all current definition updates through 5/15/07
retrieved Spybot will protect against ~15,100 items.
2. The default install prior to clicking on 'immunize' does not add any
sites to the restricted zone.
3. Immunization will add as of 5/15/07 ~3250 sites to the restricted
zone(ref. Sandi blog per WTC' s post. Where the other 9,000 come from..I am
not sure. I've been running AdAware, SuperSpyware, Spybot, and (don't
shudder) NSW2006/NAV with Internet Worm Protection without issue in an XP
environment and none of them have found anything beyond the routine
non-malware finds(cookies, recent run, etc) in years. My surfing is
controlled and limited. On this Vista machine, strictly N360 resident and
Defender, Spybot and CrapCleaner as non resident supplements.
4. Spybot as a tool can still be run without immunization especially if its
used as an non-background supplementary 'layered' tool to Vista's Windows
Defender and a capable AV programI(I currently use Kaspersky and N360 - one
on each machine).
*** 5.*** If one immunizes with Spybot, and here's another oddity. The
Windows Mail delay appears to be alleviated by opening the Windows Calendar
within Windows Mail.
- you may or may not recall a few months ago I reported in the
msft.public.vista.mail group the Windows Mail delay 'weirdly' being improved
after the Calendar was opened in Windows Mail.
- it is still unclear why the Calendar has any impact whatsoever on
Windows Mail performance, though its positive result has been verified by at
last four other people(not sure if Spybot was installed on those systems-
I'll ask in the futureg) in these forums and a few more in two other
private forums. The quantity of those results may not be statistically
significant, but regardless are positive findings.

Fortunately, I did not experience the KB931768 issue on two Vista Ultimate
systems, nor on the one XP machine running IE7(the other two run IE6) with
the TIF files located on a stand alone partition on a different ide
drive(slave), thus can't offer any options on that subject(lol..after
reading all the problems, I keep clicking and waiting for Armageddon, and as
insurance increased my image frequencyg)

Nice find, and good luck on the rebuild and much needed shut-eye.

...winston


"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by
this update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista,
Windows Mail had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use. Clicking
on a post in the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the text in the
bottom. Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to bring us a usable
reply window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same 2-4 seconds.
snip
I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to
apply the updates for the program.

I again started Windows Mail.

*****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

I too use Spybot S&D. Thanks for the info Richard, your efforts are
appreciated.
BChat


"Richard Urban" wrote in message
...
I had posted in a couple of various threads that I was also affected by this
update (KB931768) under both Vista and Windows XP. Under Vista, Windows Mail
had become so slow as to be almost impossible to use. Clicking on a post in
the news groups took about 2-4 seconds to show the text in the bottom.
Replying to a post also took about 2-4 seconds to bring us a usable reply
window. Shutting down Windows Mail took the same 2-4 seconds.

I also stated that I thought it was a program interaction. It took me six
days to rebuild my system, installing each program I normally use, rebooting
and then testing Windows Mail. I was creating an image of my system after
every successful program install so I could go back easily when I found a
problem. All it took was loads of time and testing.

About 2 hours ago I finally found the culprit!

Hint! Raise your hand if you have Spybot Search and Destroy installed.

I had been using Spybot Search and Destroy for about 4 years now. I
installed it under Vista and, because it seemed to work OK, I left it in
place. Well, we all know that Spybot S&D was **not** designed for Vista. It
just happened to work.

Unfortunately, it's short comings showed up after the install of KB931768

I installed Spybot S&D - and did not choose to run through the initial
wizard immediately. I closed down Spybot S&D and tested Windows Mail.
Everything was fine. After a reboot everything was still fine. I then ran
through the wizard and retrieved all the available updates for Spybot S&D. I
again tested Windows Mail and found it to work as it previously had (no
discernible problems or slow downs).

I then chose to ***immunize*** within Spybot, which you have to do to apply
the updates for the program.

I again started Windows Mail.

*****BANG***** *****BOOM***** *****BAM*****

Windows Mail had been broken!

Every adverse condition that I listed above was back in all their glory!

Now, here is the unfortunate part that is going to cause countless thousands
of people a bunch of grief. Uninstalling Spybot Search and Destroy (even
with a reboot) ***DOES NOT*** eliminate the problem and take you back to
where you were previously. Uninstalling and then using System Restore may -
if you have just installed Spybot S&D and made no changes to your system
since. I doubt if too many people would fall into this category.

Even scouring the file system and deleting all remnants left from the
install does nothing. Spybot must place, or alter, a registry entry
somewhere that is not touched by the uninstall process. You will have to
rebuild your system from scratch and resist the temptation to install Spybot
Search and Destroy.

I have not yet tested to see if this also solves the alternate placement
problem for the Temporary Internet File Folder but I will be testing for
that as soon as I place this post in the suitable newsgroups. I will also be
testing for this under Windows XP when I recover from the total exhaustion I
have been working under for the past 24 hours. (-:

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!