I have been reading the recent posts to this group and almost every one has
to do with networking Vista and XP or just trying to get their darn printer
to work through the network using both the OS.........for goodness sake
MICROSOFT help these people with a plain language tutorial on how to get the
two OS talking to each other and keep it simple. You have developed an OS
with so much security in it that the ordinary household can't wade it's way
through it.......most of us don't need all that stuff. We just want our
desktop to talk to the laptop in the living room and vice versa.
I came into the group looking for answers and found that I wasn't the only
one.
I am no expert, far from it, just a grandmother who enjoys computing. So
I've typed out how I got my Vista desktop and XP laptop to communicate if
anyone wants to contact me privately. It may not work for you but might
give you an idea on how to solve your problem.
Also everyone, Google is a wonderful place to start looking........there is
always someone out there who has solved it already and they need lots of
thanks.
Wendy
* remove the *

Wendy Lavender wrote:
I have been reading the recent posts to this group and almost every one
has to do with networking Vista and XP or just trying to get their darn
printer to work through the network using both the OS.........for
goodness sake MICROSOFT help these people with a plain language tutorial
on how to get the two OS talking to each other and keep it simple. You
have developed an OS with so much security in it that the ordinary
household can't wade it's way through it.......most of us don't need all
that stuff. We just want our desktop to talk to the laptop in the
living room and vice versa.
I came into the group looking for answers and found that I wasn't the
only one.
I am no expert, far from it, just a grandmother who enjoys computing.
So I've typed out how I got my Vista desktop and XP laptop to
communicate if anyone wants to contact me privately. It may not work
for you but might give you an idea on how to solve your problem.
Also everyone, Google is a wonderful place to start looking........there
is always someone out there who has solved it already and they need lots
of thanks.
Wendy
* remove the *

It's nice that you've offered to help people directly. You might be the
most wonderful and trustworthy person in the world, but I wouldn't
recommend to anyone that they contact a stranger for help with their
computer. If you really want to provide help, then put up a website
where people can go instead of providing you with their email addresses.

There are many Microsoft and non-Microsoft websites that do exactly what
you describe - give directions for various tasks in language as simple
as possible. Sometimes it is not possible to be completely simple when
the tasks are complex - in any operating system. The difficult truth is
that computers are not simple machines even though they are marketed as
such.

You've also addressed your message to Microsoft and you should be aware
that you are not talking to Microsoft by posting here. These are public
Usenet newsgroups hosted on Microsoft servers. While MS employees
occasionally post to the newsgroups, the vast majority of posters are
volunteers who don't work for the company.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Be aware of an "old" adage in the repair business "The main problem is
between the chair and the keyboard".

Many posts are legitimate in the sense that the perosn who posted has
researched the problem without success, however many do not RTFM (Read The
Friendly Manual) nor do they check the "Help and Support" functions or check
device OEM sites for information.

Most likely if it was possible to go back and check posts during the
introducction of XP the same people posting then are doing so now with
Vista - BTW - If you check microsoft.public.windowsxp.general newsgroup
today note that the posts equal or exceed those in the Vista generl
newsgroup.


"Wendy Lavender" wrote in message
...
I have been reading the recent posts to this group and almost every one has
to do with networking Vista and XP or just trying to get their darn printer
to work through the network using both the OS.........for goodness sake
MICROSOFT help these people with a plain language tutorial on how to get
the two OS talking to each other and keep it simple. You have developed an
OS with so much security in it that the ordinary household can't wade it's
way through it.......most of us don't need all that stuff. We just want
our desktop to talk to the laptop in the living room and vice versa.
I came into the group looking for answers and found that I wasn't the only
one.
I am no expert, far from it, just a grandmother who enjoys computing. So
I've typed out how I got my Vista desktop and XP laptop to communicate if
anyone wants to contact me privately. It may not work for you but might
give you an idea on how to solve your problem.
Also everyone, Google is a wonderful place to start looking........there
is always someone out there who has solved it already and they need lots
of thanks.
Wendy
* remove the *

What you say is almost correct. But I'm not a complete idiot, I do know this
is a public Usenet but over the years I have contacted Microsoft without any
sucess and depleated my bank account while doing it. I've had most luck
using the newsgroups from people just like myself who are frustrated beyond
reasoning and I know that Microsoft do cruise the groups that's why I posted
here.
I do have a website that's totally unrelated to computing and when time
allows I will be uploading any information I can gather that may help
others.
You have a website, perhaps you could add your suggestions to it so they can
be access by a wider community?
Cheers
Wendy

"Malke" wrote in message
...
Wendy Lavender wrote:
I have been reading the recent posts to this group and almost every one
has to do with networking Vista and XP or just trying to get their darn
printer to work through the network using both the OS.........for
goodness sake MICROSOFT help these people with a plain language tutorial
on how to get the two OS talking to each other and keep it simple. You
have developed an OS with so much security in it that the ordinary
household can't wade it's way through it.......most of us don't need all
that stuff. We just want our desktop to talk to the laptop in the living
room and vice versa.
I came into the group looking for answers and found that I wasn't the
only one.
I am no expert, far from it, just a grandmother who enjoys computing. So
I've typed out how I got my Vista desktop and XP laptop to communicate if
anyone wants to contact me privately. It may not work for you but might
give you an idea on how to solve your problem.
Also everyone, Google is a wonderful place to start looking........there
is always someone out there who has solved it already and they need lots
of thanks.
Wendy
* remove the *

It's nice that you've offered to help people directly. You might be the
most wonderful and trustworthy person in the world, but I wouldn't
recommend to anyone that they contact a stranger for help with their
computer. If you really want to provide help, then put up a website where
people can go instead of providing you with their email addresses.

There are many Microsoft and non-Microsoft websites that do exactly what
you describe - give directions for various tasks in language as simple as
possible. Sometimes it is not possible to be completely simple when the
tasks are complex - in any operating system. The difficult truth is that
computers are not simple machines even though they are marketed as such.

You've also addressed your message to Microsoft and you should be aware
that you are not talking to Microsoft by posting here. These are public
Usenet newsgroups hosted on Microsoft servers. While MS employees
occasionally post to the newsgroups, the vast majority of posters are
volunteers who don't work for the company.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Yep I'm definitely old and between the chair and the keyboard ))

I'll agree, many don't RTFM or can't even tell you where the Help and
Support icon is but in this case I read the F manual, Help and Support
(which it doesn't) checked the device OEM (Dell) which was a waste of time.
For starters, the information on the LLTD patch was not entirely easy to
find at MS and that was AFTER I found out I needed it. Most are still at
the "don't know they need it" bit.

If they're still posting to numerous groups, then they really are stuck and
still looking for answers.



"AJR" wrote in message
...
Be aware of an "old" adage in the repair business "The main problem is
between the chair and the keyboard".

Many posts are legitimate in the sense that the perosn who posted has
researched the problem without success, however many do not RTFM (Read The
Friendly Manual) nor do they check the "Help and Support" functions or
check device OEM sites for information.

Most likely if it was possible to go back and check posts during the
introducction of XP the same people posting then are doing so now with
Vista - BTW - If you check microsoft.public.windowsxp.general newsgroup
today note that the posts equal or exceed those in the Vista generl
newsgroup.

Amen!

"Wendy Lavender" wrote in message
...
Yep I'm definitely old and between the chair and the keyboard ))

I'll agree, many don't RTFM or can't even tell you where the Help and
Support icon is but in this case I read the F manual, Help and Support
(which it doesn't) checked the device OEM (Dell) which was a waste of
time. For starters, the information on the LLTD patch was not entirely
easy to find at MS and that was AFTER I found out I needed it. Most are
still at the "don't know they need it" bit.

If they're still posting to numerous groups, then they really are stuck
and still looking for answers.



"AJR" wrote in message
...
Be aware of an "old" adage in the repair business "The main problem is
between the chair and the keyboard".

Many posts are legitimate in the sense that the perosn who posted has
researched the problem without success, however many do not RTFM (Read
The Friendly Manual) nor do they check the "Help and Support" functions
or check device OEM sites for information.

Most likely if it was possible to go back and check posts during the
introducction of XP the same people posting then are doing so now with
Vista - BTW - If you check microsoft.public.windowsxp.general newsgroup
today note that the posts equal or exceed those in the Vista generl
newsgroup.

Wendy Lavender,

Actually, there are a number of us who monitor our relevant newsgroups
regularly. Did you know that for May alone, there've been 10 different
Microsoft employees posting to this very newsgroup at least once; and some
posted many more than once.

We hear the feedback from the user group that there is some pain around the
changes in file and printer sharing. We even dedicated two sessions to just
those topics during the recent MVP Summit. We work closely with our MVP's
and Techbeta audience to provide us much appreciated feedback on early builds
of Vista.

Not only that, but we have added lots of detail to local and online help
resources for users. In making Vista more secure out of the box, we realize
we made it more challenging for the user to do things that were quite simple
in XP. But we worked hard with our customers during many rounds of usability
tests, and redesigns. We still have more work to do to make this easier.

To that end, we sincerely appreciate the feedback provided by you, our
users. If you would like to play a greater role in the design of our
software, then check out how to become a Microsoft MVP, or join the TechBeta
group. We value your positive and almost more, your negative feedback. We
realize that if we don't please you, we will lose you as a customer. We
don't want to lose a single one of you. It's hard to design software that's
intuitive for advanced users, while not intimidating our average users. We
have a long way to go.

Thanks for your patience.


"Wendy Lavender" wrote:

I have been reading the recent posts to this group and almost every one has
to do with networking Vista and XP or just trying to get their darn printer
to work through the network using both the OS.........for goodness sake
MICROSOFT help these people with a plain language tutorial on how to get the
two OS talking to each other and keep it simple. You have developed an OS
with so much security in it that the ordinary household can't wade it's way
through it.......most of us don't need all that stuff. We just want our
desktop to talk to the laptop in the living room and vice versa.
I came into the group looking for answers and found that I wasn't the only
one.
I am no expert, far from it, just a grandmother who enjoys computing. So
I've typed out how I got my Vista desktop and XP laptop to communicate if
anyone wants to contact me privately. It may not work for you but might
give you an idea on how to solve your problem.
Also everyone, Google is a wonderful place to start looking........there is
always someone out there who has solved it already and they need lots of
thanks.
Wendy
* remove the *

Kim,
Thanks for the history.

As a long time Msft stockholder and newsgroup contributor, I'm glad to see the visit and posting of Msft personnel in these forums, just as we all value the support and expertise of the talented MVP's and other personnel contributing their knowledge on a volunteer basis. Any new information by anyone on problem areas(solutions and even complaints with added content) brought to the table is helpful to all.

If I read Ms. Lavender's request properly her primary point was in suggesting a much better, simpler and easily available plain English non technical tutorial(than perceived as available today) to remedy networking problems for the ordinary household users. I also suspect that an 'ordinary household' user by her definition is probably not an mvp or beta tester though depending upon area of expertise or application specific interest there is an 'ordinary household user' in all of us.

The inclusion of the following, while interesting from a statistic or information perspective, probably did not meet her request.
a. How many Msft personnel monitor this or other relevant newsgroups
b .How often someone from Msft posted
c. How to become an MVP
d. How to join a Tech Beta group

Keep up the good work and pass on thanks to Gloria, Gabe, Ken, Shubhankar, Rama, Rakesh. Pradeep, Michael, Meredith, Kim, Karl, Jill, Charlene, and Jay. Maybe this team can meet Wendy's tutorial request.

...winston

"Kim [MS]" wrote in message ...
: Wendy Lavender,
:
: Actually, there are a number of us who monitor our relevant newsgroups
: regularly. Did you know that for May alone, there've been 10 different
: Microsoft employees posting to this very newsgroup at least once; and some
: posted many more than once.
:
: We hear the feedback from the user group that there is some pain around the
: changes in file and printer sharing. We even dedicated two sessions to just
: those topics during the recent MVP Summit. We work closely with our MVP's
: and Techbeta audience to provide us much appreciated feedback on early builds
: of Vista.
:
: Not only that, but we have added lots of detail to local and online help
: resources for users. In making Vista more secure out of the box, we realize
: we made it more challenging for the user to do things that were quite simple
: in XP. But we worked hard with our customers during many rounds of usability
: tests, and redesigns. We still have more work to do to make this easier.
:
: To that end, we sincerely appreciate the feedback provided by you, our
: users. If you would like to play a greater role in the design of our
: software, then check out how to become a Microsoft MVP, or join the TechBeta
: group. We value your positive and almost more, your negative feedback. We
: realize that if we don't please you, we will lose you as a customer. We
: don't want to lose a single one of you. It's hard to design software that's
: intuitive for advanced users, while not intimidating our average users. We
: have a long way to go.
:
: Thanks for your patience.
:
:
: "Wendy Lavender" wrote:
:
: I have been reading the recent posts to this group and almost every one has
: to do with networking Vista and XP or just trying to get their darn printer
: to work through the network using both the OS.........for goodness sake
: MICROSOFT help these people with a plain language tutorial on how to get the
: two OS talking to each other and keep it simple. You have developed an OS
: with so much security in it that the ordinary household can't wade it's way
: through it.......most of us don't need all that stuff. We just want our
: desktop to talk to the laptop in the living room and vice versa.
: I came into the group looking for answers and found that I wasn't the only
: one.
: I am no expert, far from it, just a grandmother who enjoys computing. So
: I've typed out how I got my Vista desktop and XP laptop to communicate if
: anyone wants to contact me privately. It may not work for you but might
: give you an idea on how to solve your problem.
: Also everyone, Google is a wonderful place to start looking........there is
: always someone out there who has solved it already and they need lots of
: thanks.
: Wendy
: * remove the *
:
:

Big deal. 10 semi-voluntary MS employees worldwide answering newsgroup
queries. We appreciate what you moonlighting MS employees do, but that's the
point - what kind of support is that? Practically none. Help is usually
useless and unwilling to admit the possibility that something outside the
accepted norm has happened and it often implies that it's simply your fault.

You said "It's hard to design software that's intuitive for advanced users,
while not intimidating our average users." Yet I see plenty of advanced
users who know what they are talking about in these groups still intimidated
and bamboozled by Vista's befuddling and incomprehensible behaviour. It's
not just non-intuitive for people with an IQ under a hundred, it's
non-intuitive to many many intelligent people. Ordinary users should not
have to go through all this hassle just to make the stinking OS do what it
should in the first place.

And it's amusing to say "We realize that if we don't please you, we will
lose you as a customer." You know that's not true, and is the root of the
whole problem - Windows is a virtual monopoly and most people have no choice
but to deal with it. There is almost no competition and that's why MS
(officially - I'm not disparaging the efforts of you guys) could care less
about their customers and release such flawed products.

I will say, however, that despite the many networking problems and other
minor annoyances of Vista, it is ten times better than XP was when it came
out, so MS have obviously learnt something. It is much more stable, crashes
far less, and handles lots of things better. But it appears to be no better
at networking than Win 95 was ten years ago, judging by all the complaints.

You said "We have a long way to go," and that's about the only thing that we
all agree on!

Greg

"Kim [MS]" wrote in message
...
Wendy Lavender,

Actually, there are a number of us who monitor our relevant newsgroups
regularly. Did you know that for May alone, there've been 10 different
Microsoft employees posting to this very newsgroup at least once; and some
posted many more than once.

do you think
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...extenders.mspx
is too technical for the subject I covered? I'm interested in what
might make this kind of article better.

On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 23:41:34 -0400, "...winston"
wrote:


If I read Ms. Lavender's request properly her primary point was in suggesting a much better, simpler and easily available plain English non technical tutorial(than perceived as available today) to remedy networking problems for the ordinary household users. I also suspect that an 'ordinary household' user by her definition is probably not an mvp or beta tester though depending upon area of expertise or application specific interest there is an 'ordinary household user' in all of us.
--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
Expert Zone & Vista Community Columnist
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/e...ts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/