Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release". Non-the-less, a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it, from us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

They're probably a little more intelligent (Speaking as a reformed pirate
from the early 1990's/late 1980s). Someone said directly that there's
nothing microsoft can do legally. And these people are doing it without
shelling out the $350 to be a Technet member (that's really all it takes,
intelligence is optional)..

The day "click to agree to a license" locks you in to a contract agreement
is the day I say "ooooooooookay" and stop using computers altogether (maybe
switch 100% to free software/linux) because the last time I read a microsoft
license agreement (we're talking 5 years ago) half of it (the bottom half)
is in another language (I think french canadian) and I don't know how I can
agree to a license in a language I can't understand. ON top of that, over
the last ten year I've grown habituated to 'click agree to install' knowing
it really means nothing because legally, it can't (I remember a joke I read
in one of the freebie mags : "Burried deep in a license agreement : By
clicking Accept you agree to become Bill Gates' personal slave."). The idea
of a shrinkwrap license agreement is silly -- I say when you buy something
you can do what you want with it so long as it's not physically/mentally
harmful to others.

The only "license limitation" is the Number of copies they'll let you
install before requiring activation to stop you. I honestly question the
legality of product activation. Imagine GE selling a light bulb and saying
you can use it in ANY compatible lamp, but if you decide to put it in
another lamp after the first one you put it in, it won't work.

-Rob

DIV"M@dhat3rr" > wrote
in message .../DIV
Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who
pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for
help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release". Non-the-less,
a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing
any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it, from
us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

Rob, when you click 'I Agree' you are, in fact, signing a legal contract. Why
do you think a EULA exists? Just to have a txt file with a bunch of words?
The only reason why Microsoft couldn't go after people is the ISPs won't give
out the information associated with the IP. That and Microsoft, I don't
think, has any idea how XP, 2000, Server 2003, Office, etc. etc. is
distributed illegally. I tried to talk to Microsoft's anti-pirating ward,
back in March I think, and the person had no... I mean NO idea what I was
talking about. I was using terms like 'Beta build 5308', 'ISO', 'trackers',
etc. and the woman was dumb-founded; claiming I don't know what that is.....
for christs sake, she was working in the anti-piracy division! About the only
thing she did understand was 'eBay'. I tell you, MS has some real idiots
working anti-piracy.

Here's an idea: associate a PK, with a MSDN, TechNet, TAP, or connect user.
Use the PK to see who is leaking the images.... wow, I must be a genius.

Considering that these pirates are posting on a Microsoft NG, shows
something. So a person steals a beta build from Microsoft and posts on a
Microsoft NG...mmmm.

But yes, a EULA is a legally binding contract.

"Rob Wilkens" wrote:

They're probably a little more intelligent (Speaking as a reformed pirate
from the early 1990's/late 1980s). Someone said directly that there's
nothing microsoft can do legally. And these people are doing it without
shelling out the $350 to be a Technet member (that's really all it takes,
intelligence is optional)..

The day "click to agree to a license" locks you in to a contract agreement
is the day I say "ooooooooookay" and stop using computers altogether (maybe
switch 100% to free software/linux) because the last time I read a microsoft
license agreement (we're talking 5 years ago) half of it (the bottom half)
is in another language (I think french canadian) and I don't know how I can
agree to a license in a language I can't understand. ON top of that, over
the last ten year I've grown habituated to 'click agree to install' knowing
it really means nothing because legally, it can't (I remember a joke I read
in one of the freebie mags : "Burried deep in a license agreement : By
clicking Accept you agree to become Bill Gates' personal slave."). The idea
of a shrinkwrap license agreement is silly -- I say when you buy something
you can do what you want with it so long as it's not physically/mentally
harmful to others.

The only "license limitation" is the Number of copies they'll let you
install before requiring activation to stop you. I honestly question the
legality of product activation. Imagine GE selling a light bulb and saying
you can use it in ANY compatible lamp, but if you decide to put it in
another lamp after the first one you put it in, it won't work.

-Rob

DIV"M@dhat3rr" wrote
in message .../DIV
Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who
pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for
help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release". Non-the-less,
a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing
any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it, from
us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

On 2006-08-27 07:27:50 -0400, "Rob Wilkens" said:


The day "click to agree to a license" locks you in to a contract
agreement is the day I say "ooooooooookay" and stop using computers
altogether (maybe switch 100% to free software/linux) because the last
time I read a microsoft license agreement (we're talking 5 years ago)
half of it (the bottom half) is in another language (I think french
canadian)

There's no such thing as a French Canadian language. French is French.
There are differences between the French Canadian and the French
keyboards. Mostly QWERTY vs AZERTY.

Amazing the accusations that fly off these boards. This build was available
to anyone who attended the BlackHat in Las Vegas and they were also given
away on the Vista Security Blog:

Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:00 AM by windowsvistasecurity
Flash Swag: Windows Vista Build 5472 DVD
We have reached our limit. All the DVDs are gone. If you do not receive one
you were not one of the first 75 people or you did not provide your shipping
address. We hope to do more giveaways in the future so stay tuned.

Hi, I’m Alex Heaton, a product manager on the Windows Vista security team
and the keeper of the blog. My focus is User Account Control, and I was one
of the people passing out the Windows Vista DVDs at Black Hat. We have a few
DVDs of the new Windows Vista July EDW build (5472) left, and we want to
share the rest of them with our blog readers. The first 75 people who send
e-mail to [deleted] with your mailing address can get a DVD and product
registration key. These copies expire May 31, 2007. We will not use your
contact information for any other purpose and will delete all e-mails as soon
as the DVDs are distributed. If you already have access to this build through
one of the beta programs, please don’t request one of these DVDs so that
someone else can get one.

Thanks to everyone for reading and for your comments.

- Alex

(Comments now disabled for this post. No more DVD's are available.)



"M@dhat3rr" wrote:

Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release". Non-the-less, a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it, from us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

I've noticed the same thing, but I wasn't going to say anything about it.
There are many people that simply can't afford a Technet or MSDN subscription
(myself included). Fortunately, Connect is free if you can get an invite.
--
Robert Firth
http://www.winvistainfo.org


"M@dhat3rr" wrote:

Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release". Non-the-less, a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it, from us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

To End Users???

Seriously, when I kill someone in other programs (video games) am I
committing felony homicide? Why is clicking something in an install process
any different?

-Rob

DIV"M@dhat3rr" > wrote
in message .../DIV
Rob, when you click 'I Agree' you are, in fact, signing a legal contract.
Why
do you think a EULA exists? Just to have a txt file with a bunch of words?
The only reason why Microsoft couldn't go after people is the ISPs won't
give
out the information associated with the IP. That and Microsoft, I don't
think, has any idea how XP, 2000, Server 2003, Office, etc. etc. is
distributed illegally. I tried to talk to Microsoft's anti-pirating ward,
back in March I think, and the person had no... I mean NO idea what I was
talking about. I was using terms like 'Beta build 5308', 'ISO',
'trackers',
etc. and the woman was dumb-founded; claiming I don't know what that
is.....
for christs sake, she was working in the anti-piracy division! About the
only
thing she did understand was 'eBay'. I tell you, MS has some real idiots
working anti-piracy.

Here's an idea: associate a PK, with a MSDN, TechNet, TAP, or connect
user.
Use the PK to see who is leaking the images.... wow, I must be a genius.

Considering that these pirates are posting on a Microsoft NG, shows
something. So a person steals a beta build from Microsoft and posts on a
Microsoft NG...mmmm.

But yes, a EULA is a legally binding contract.

"Rob Wilkens" wrote:

They're probably a little more intelligent (Speaking as a reformed pirate
from the early 1990's/late 1980s). Someone said directly that there's
nothing microsoft can do legally. And these people are doing it without
shelling out the $350 to be a Technet member (that's really all it takes,
intelligence is optional)..

The day "click to agree to a license" locks you in to a contract
agreement
is the day I say "ooooooooookay" and stop using computers altogether
(maybe
switch 100% to free software/linux) because the last time I read a
microsoft
license agreement (we're talking 5 years ago) half of it (the bottom
half)
is in another language (I think french canadian) and I don't know how I
can
agree to a license in a language I can't understand. ON top of that,
over
the last ten year I've grown habituated to 'click agree to install'
knowing
it really means nothing because legally, it can't (I remember a joke I
read
in one of the freebie mags : "Burried deep in a license agreement : By
clicking Accept you agree to become Bill Gates' personal slave."). The
idea
of a shrinkwrap license agreement is silly -- I say when you buy
something
you can do what you want with it so long as it's not physically/mentally
harmful to others.

The only "license limitation" is the Number of copies they'll let you
install before requiring activation to stop you. I honestly question the
legality of product activation. Imagine GE selling a light bulb and
saying
you can use it in ANY compatible lamp, but if you decide to put it in
another lamp after the first one you put it in, it won't work.

-Rob

DIV"M@dhat3rr" wrote
in message
.../DIV
Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are
not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who
pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for
help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release".
Non-the-less,
a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing
any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it,
from
us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

Hello

I see that you are posting via Videotron from Quebec. Therefore you should know that there is quite a bit of difference between the 2 French languages. Although both are French the difference in composition and pronunciation and meaning differ in a lot of areas.

As one example as below

French from France you call Grapefruit as Grapefruit
In Canadian French grapefruit is Pamplemouse.

Quite a difference I would say as is many others

Bye

--
Daphne

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"microfox" wrote in message news:2006082709284416807-nomail@allcom...
On 2006-08-27 07:27:50 -0400, "Rob Wilkens" said:


The day "click to agree to a license" locks you in to a contract
agreement is the day I say "ooooooooookay" and stop using computers
altogether (maybe switch 100% to free software/linux) because the last
time I read a microsoft license agreement (we're talking 5 years ago)
half of it (the bottom half) is in another language (I think french
canadian)

There's no such thing as a French Canadian language. French is French.
There are differences between the French Canadian and the French
keyboards. Mostly QWERTY vs AZERTY.

Hello

You also forgot MSDN among others. (vbs)

--
Daphne

Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

"M@dhat3rr" wrote in message ...
Rob, when you click 'I Agree' you are, in fact, signing a legal contract. Why
do you think a EULA exists? Just to have a txt file with a bunch of words?
The only reason why Microsoft couldn't go after people is the ISPs won't give
out the information associated with the IP. That and Microsoft, I don't
think, has any idea how XP, 2000, Server 2003, Office, etc. etc. is
distributed illegally. I tried to talk to Microsoft's anti-pirating ward,
back in March I think, and the person had no... I mean NO idea what I was
talking about. I was using terms like 'Beta build 5308', 'ISO', 'trackers',
etc. and the woman was dumb-founded; claiming I don't know what that is.....
for christs sake, she was working in the anti-piracy division! About the only
thing she did understand was 'eBay'. I tell you, MS has some real idiots
working anti-piracy.

Here's an idea: associate a PK, with a MSDN, TechNet, TAP, or connect user.
Use the PK to see who is leaking the images.... wow, I must be a genius.

Considering that these pirates are posting on a Microsoft NG, shows
something. So a person steals a beta build from Microsoft and posts on a
Microsoft NG...mmmm.

But yes, a EULA is a legally binding contract.

"Rob Wilkens" wrote:

They're probably a little more intelligent (Speaking as a reformed pirate
from the early 1990's/late 1980s). Someone said directly that there's
nothing microsoft can do legally. And these people are doing it without
shelling out the $350 to be a Technet member (that's really all it takes,
intelligence is optional)..

The day "click to agree to a license" locks you in to a contract agreement
is the day I say "ooooooooookay" and stop using computers altogether (maybe
switch 100% to free software/linux) because the last time I read a microsoft
license agreement (we're talking 5 years ago) half of it (the bottom half)
is in another language (I think french canadian) and I don't know how I can
agree to a license in a language I can't understand. ON top of that, over
the last ten year I've grown habituated to 'click agree to install' knowing
it really means nothing because legally, it can't (I remember a joke I read
in one of the freebie mags : "Burried deep in a license agreement : By
clicking Accept you agree to become Bill Gates' personal slave."). The idea
of a shrinkwrap license agreement is silly -- I say when you buy something
you can do what you want with it so long as it's not physically/mentally
harmful to others.

The only "license limitation" is the Number of copies they'll let you
install before requiring activation to stop you. I honestly question the
legality of product activation. Imagine GE selling a light bulb and saying
you can use it in ANY compatible lamp, but if you decide to put it in
another lamp after the first one you put it in, it won't work.

-Rob

DIV"M@dhat3rr" wrote
in message .../DIV
Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who
pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for
help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release". Non-the-less,
a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing
any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it, from
us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

"M@dhat3rr" wrote in message
...
Recently, I've noticed some people on here who have 5472 & 5536, who are
not
technet members, hence pirates. I'm alittle surprised that people who
pirate
Vista have the intelligence (or lack thereof) to post here; asking for
help
on a Microsoft created newsgroup.

I know most of you will say "So what? It's a beta release". Non-the-less,
a
pirate is a pirate, right? Now we all know that Microsoft isn't loosing
any
money from pirated betas, and the people who ask for support for it, from
us.
But isn't right, right; and wrong, wrong?

I guess I'll be more careful about answering questions here.

I don't know if I'm one of the ones you are talking about but perhaps you
should be a bit more careful with your accusations. I was added to the beta
list by one of my users who happened to be a Microsoft employee. The
nomination was approved and I was invited to register on the Connect beta
site. That's how I got access to 5536. I'm no pirate.