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Windows Vista File Management Issues or questions in relation to Vista's file management. (microsoft.public.windows.vista.file_management) |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably.
If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
"Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management Doesn't delete the subtest folder or test1.txt file here. |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
Doesn't delete the subtest folder or test1.txt file here.
Really? I can reproduce this reliably, and I have Windows Update enabled, so I assume I have the latest version of Vista Home Premium. winver.exe reports Windows Version 6.0 (Build 6000). Note that the instructions have to be followed very closely to reproduce. Specifically, you need to first single-click the TestSub folder in the left-hand tree view. Immediately afterward (without clicking anywhere else), position the mouse pointer directly to the east of the file named "Test2.txt". Then in one motion, hold down the left mouse button and drag the cursor southwest until you have covered the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Now release the mouse button. Finally press Delete on the keyboard (or Shift + Delete, doesn't matter). Windows will ask you if you want to delete the folder "TestSub". If you single-click anywhere in the right-hand panel after clicking the TestSub folder but before highlighting the two files, then the problem doesn't occur. Looks like the "Mouse Down", "Mouse Up" and "Mouse Drag" events are not informing Explorer that the context has switched to the right-hand panel. This is definitely a bug. If you provide me an e-mail address or FTP address, I can send screen shots. Just let me know. Dave "Dave" wrote: "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management Doesn't delete the subtest folder or test1.txt file here. |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
Hi Dave
I also cannot recreate what you are describing here? It appears that for whatever reason, the focus is being transferred properly from the TestSub folder to the 2 selected files in the right side pane, even though the details bar shows 2 files selected? Give us some more details about where in the folder tree these folders are being created. Also, what type of hardware are you using, wireless mouse or keyboard or? What settings are you using in folder options, classic folders, single or double click, etc. Try using the mouse to right click, hold down 'Shift' and select the Delete command in the context menu in step 7. This is very interesting. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
The key to reproducing this is that immediately after clicking on the folder
in the left-hand tree view, you need to "draw a box" in the right-hand list view that implicitly selects one or more files. You need to start the box by NOT clicking directly on the file itself, and you need to completely avoid doing a normal single-click. I start by positioning the mouse pointer well to the right of the file name. Then I press down on the left-hand mouse button (don't release!) and drag the pointer to the southwest, drawing a solid blue box that partially touches the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". It may sound strange, but I actually use this technique all the time to move files around. I can actually reproduce this with just a single folder and a single file. I create a "Test" directory right off the "C:" drive with a single, empty text file called "Test1.txt" in that directory. Next, click on any folder in the left-hand tree view OTHER than "Test". Now click on the "Test" folder in the left-hand tree view. Then follow the instructions above. I am using a Dell wireless mouse and wireless keyboard (Bluetooth), though I'd be surprised if that made a difference. In terms of options, I'm just using the classic Windows Explorer with a tree view of folders in the left-hand panel and a list view of files/subfolders in the right-hand panel. I'm using the "Details" view in the right-hand panel. Let me know if you're able to reproduce with this information. If not, I'll try digging up my older wired keyboard and mouse and see if that makes a difference. If you want to reach me directly you can e-mail me at davidamdur (at) gmail (dot) com. Thanks, Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I also cannot recreate what you are describing here? It appears that for whatever reason, the focus is being transferred properly from the TestSub folder to the 2 selected files in the right side pane, even though the details bar shows 2 files selected? Give us some more details about where in the folder tree these folders are being created. Also, what type of hardware are you using, wireless mouse or keyboard or? What settings are you using in folder options, classic folders, single or double click, etc. Try using the mouse to right click, hold down 'Shift' and select the Delete command in the context menu in step 7. This is very interesting. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
Hi Dave
I'm not having any problem following your instructions, they are very clear. I just cannot reproduce the behavior you are seeing. The problem does appear to be a focus issue. Prior to dragging and selecting the files, the focus is on the folder and dragging to select the files doesn't appear to change the focus to the files that are being selected. This is why you are seeing the message about deleting the folder instead of the selected files. A single mouse click is actually 2 separate functions. One is when you press the mouse button and the second is when you release the button. You can see this by clicking a folder that contains sub-folders, the sub-folders will appear in the right side pane. If you position the mouse cursor in the right side pane and press/hold the right mouse button, nothing happens, but as soon as you release the right mouse button, the context menu pops up. In this case, the press gave the right side pane focus and the release caused the context menu to appear. In this same scenario,you can also press and hold the right mouse button, drag the cursor to select an area or a file/folder, but nothing will happen until you 'release' the right mouse button which will then pop up the context menu, completing the operation. In the behavior you are describing, you press and hold the left mouse button, drag to select the files and then release the mouse button. The 'press' appears to work properly, but the operation isn't complete until the button is released and this appears to be where the operation fails. The only difference between our testing appears to be that you are using wireless hardware and I am using wired hardware. If it's not too much trouble, try switching to a wired mouse and try to recreate the behavior. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... The key to reproducing this is that immediately after clicking on the folder in the left-hand tree view, you need to "draw a box" in the right-hand list view that implicitly selects one or more files. You need to start the box by NOT clicking directly on the file itself, and you need to completely avoid doing a normal single-click. I start by positioning the mouse pointer well to the right of the file name. Then I press down on the left-hand mouse button (don't release!) and drag the pointer to the southwest, drawing a solid blue box that partially touches the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". It may sound strange, but I actually use this technique all the time to move files around. I can actually reproduce this with just a single folder and a single file. I create a "Test" directory right off the "C:" drive with a single, empty text file called "Test1.txt" in that directory. Next, click on any folder in the left-hand tree view OTHER than "Test". Now click on the "Test" folder in the left-hand tree view. Then follow the instructions above. I am using a Dell wireless mouse and wireless keyboard (Bluetooth), though I'd be surprised if that made a difference. In terms of options, I'm just using the classic Windows Explorer with a tree view of folders in the left-hand panel and a list view of files/subfolders in the right-hand panel. I'm using the "Details" view in the right-hand panel. Let me know if you're able to reproduce with this information. If not, I'll try digging up my older wired keyboard and mouse and see if that makes a difference. If you want to reach me directly you can e-mail me at davidamdur (at) gmail (dot) com. Thanks, Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I also cannot recreate what you are describing here? It appears that for whatever reason, the focus is being transferred properly from the TestSub folder to the 2 selected files in the right side pane, even though the details bar shows 2 files selected? Give us some more details about where in the folder tree these folders are being created. Also, what type of hardware are you using, wireless mouse or keyboard or? What settings are you using in folder options, classic folders, single or double click, etc. Try using the mouse to right click, hold down 'Shift' and select the Delete command in the context menu in step 7. This is very interesting. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
I just tried with a wired mouse and can still reproduce the problem easily.
I can't use a wired keyboard because my wired keyboard has a PS/2 plug and my computer running Vista has only USB slots. Still, it seems unlikely that the keyboard is the problem. Your assessment makes sense: it sounds like the mouse drag operation (a combination of mouse down, mouse move, and mouse up events) is not bringing focus to the right-hand panel. What version/build are you running? I'm on Vista Home Premium, Build 6000. Maybe this was fixed in a later build? Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I'm not having any problem following your instructions, they are very clear. I just cannot reproduce the behavior you are seeing. The problem does appear to be a focus issue. Prior to dragging and selecting the files, the focus is on the folder and dragging to select the files doesn't appear to change the focus to the files that are being selected. This is why you are seeing the message about deleting the folder instead of the selected files. A single mouse click is actually 2 separate functions. One is when you press the mouse button and the second is when you release the button. You can see this by clicking a folder that contains sub-folders, the sub-folders will appear in the right side pane. If you position the mouse cursor in the right side pane and press/hold the right mouse button, nothing happens, but as soon as you release the right mouse button, the context menu pops up. In this case, the press gave the right side pane focus and the release caused the context menu to appear. In this same scenario,you can also press and hold the right mouse button, drag the cursor to select an area or a file/folder, but nothing will happen until you 'release' the right mouse button which will then pop up the context menu, completing the operation. In the behavior you are describing, you press and hold the left mouse button, drag to select the files and then release the mouse button. The 'press' appears to work properly, but the operation isn't complete until the button is released and this appears to be where the operation fails. The only difference between our testing appears to be that you are using wireless hardware and I am using wired hardware. If it's not too much trouble, try switching to a wired mouse and try to recreate the behavior. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... The key to reproducing this is that immediately after clicking on the folder in the left-hand tree view, you need to "draw a box" in the right-hand list view that implicitly selects one or more files. You need to start the box by NOT clicking directly on the file itself, and you need to completely avoid doing a normal single-click. I start by positioning the mouse pointer well to the right of the file name. Then I press down on the left-hand mouse button (don't release!) and drag the pointer to the southwest, drawing a solid blue box that partially touches the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". It may sound strange, but I actually use this technique all the time to move files around. I can actually reproduce this with just a single folder and a single file. I create a "Test" directory right off the "C:" drive with a single, empty text file called "Test1.txt" in that directory. Next, click on any folder in the left-hand tree view OTHER than "Test". Now click on the "Test" folder in the left-hand tree view. Then follow the instructions above. I am using a Dell wireless mouse and wireless keyboard (Bluetooth), though I'd be surprised if that made a difference. In terms of options, I'm just using the classic Windows Explorer with a tree view of folders in the left-hand panel and a list view of files/subfolders in the right-hand panel. I'm using the "Details" view in the right-hand panel. Let me know if you're able to reproduce with this information. If not, I'll try digging up my older wired keyboard and mouse and see if that makes a difference. If you want to reach me directly you can e-mail me at davidamdur (at) gmail (dot) com. Thanks, Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I also cannot recreate what you are describing here? It appears that for whatever reason, the focus is being transferred properly from the TestSub folder to the 2 selected files in the right side pane, even though the details bar shows 2 files selected? Give us some more details about where in the folder tree these folders are being created. Also, what type of hardware are you using, wireless mouse or keyboard or? What settings are you using in folder options, classic folders, single or double click, etc. Try using the mouse to right click, hold down 'Shift' and select the Delete command in the context menu in step 7. This is very interesting. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
Dave
Thanks for the info. I have 3 Vista systems running here, 2 test systems with Home Premium and Business and my production machine with Ultimate. The 2 test systems are the original Build 6000 and the production machine is Build 6001 (SP1). I have tried this scenario on all 3 with the same results. I'll add this problem to my research list and also try to escalate it with the Shell Team as far as I can. If I find anything I'll let you know with the email address you provided and post the information to this thread. There is also another feedback path to Microsoft, if you want to go ahead and submit it there. They do read those feedbacks, but cannot respond personally to each submission. Be sure and include a description of your system in the report, they can usually recreate just about any type of system when they test. Vista Feedback Portal: https://feedback.windowsvista.micros...ctkey=winvista Take care, -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I just tried with a wired mouse and can still reproduce the problem easily. I can't use a wired keyboard because my wired keyboard has a PS/2 plug and my computer running Vista has only USB slots. Still, it seems unlikely that the keyboard is the problem. Your assessment makes sense: it sounds like the mouse drag operation (a combination of mouse down, mouse move, and mouse up events) is not bringing focus to the right-hand panel. What version/build are you running? I'm on Vista Home Premium, Build 6000. Maybe this was fixed in a later build? Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I'm not having any problem following your instructions, they are very clear. I just cannot reproduce the behavior you are seeing. The problem does appear to be a focus issue. Prior to dragging and selecting the files, the focus is on the folder and dragging to select the files doesn't appear to change the focus to the files that are being selected. This is why you are seeing the message about deleting the folder instead of the selected files. A single mouse click is actually 2 separate functions. One is when you press the mouse button and the second is when you release the button. You can see this by clicking a folder that contains sub-folders, the sub-folders will appear in the right side pane. If you position the mouse cursor in the right side pane and press/hold the right mouse button, nothing happens, but as soon as you release the right mouse button, the context menu pops up. In this case, the press gave the right side pane focus and the release caused the context menu to appear. In this same scenario,you can also press and hold the right mouse button, drag the cursor to select an area or a file/folder, but nothing will happen until you 'release' the right mouse button which will then pop up the context menu, completing the operation. In the behavior you are describing, you press and hold the left mouse button, drag to select the files and then release the mouse button. The 'press' appears to work properly, but the operation isn't complete until the button is released and this appears to be where the operation fails. The only difference between our testing appears to be that you are using wireless hardware and I am using wired hardware. If it's not too much trouble, try switching to a wired mouse and try to recreate the behavior. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... The key to reproducing this is that immediately after clicking on the folder in the left-hand tree view, you need to "draw a box" in the right-hand list view that implicitly selects one or more files. You need to start the box by NOT clicking directly on the file itself, and you need to completely avoid doing a normal single-click. I start by positioning the mouse pointer well to the right of the file name. Then I press down on the left-hand mouse button (don't release!) and drag the pointer to the southwest, drawing a solid blue box that partially touches the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". It may sound strange, but I actually use this technique all the time to move files around. I can actually reproduce this with just a single folder and a single file. I create a "Test" directory right off the "C:" drive with a single, empty text file called "Test1.txt" in that directory. Next, click on any folder in the left-hand tree view OTHER than "Test". Now click on the "Test" folder in the left-hand tree view. Then follow the instructions above. I am using a Dell wireless mouse and wireless keyboard (Bluetooth), though I'd be surprised if that made a difference. In terms of options, I'm just using the classic Windows Explorer with a tree view of folders in the left-hand panel and a list view of files/subfolders in the right-hand panel. I'm using the "Details" view in the right-hand panel. Let me know if you're able to reproduce with this information. If not, I'll try digging up my older wired keyboard and mouse and see if that makes a difference. If you want to reach me directly you can e-mail me at davidamdur (at) gmail (dot) com. Thanks, Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I also cannot recreate what you are describing here? It appears that for whatever reason, the focus is being transferred properly from the TestSub folder to the 2 selected files in the right side pane, even though the details bar shows 2 files selected? Give us some more details about where in the folder tree these folders are being created. Also, what type of hardware are you using, wireless mouse or keyboard or? What settings are you using in folder options, classic folders, single or double click, etc. Try using the mouse to right click, hold down 'Shift' and select the Delete command in the context menu in step 7. This is very interesting. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
Cool. Thanks for reading all my posts! The only other thing that occurs to
me is that I'm on an AMD Athlon machine. It's probably a long shot, but I did once encounter a bug in MATLAB that only cropped up only on AMD (as opposed to Intel) boxes. I'll send a feedback message through the URL you mentioned, too. Thanks again. Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Dave Thanks for the info. I have 3 Vista systems running here, 2 test systems with Home Premium and Business and my production machine with Ultimate. The 2 test systems are the original Build 6000 and the production machine is Build 6001 (SP1). I have tried this scenario on all 3 with the same results. I'll add this problem to my research list and also try to escalate it with the Shell Team as far as I can. If I find anything I'll let you know with the email address you provided and post the information to this thread. There is also another feedback path to Microsoft, if you want to go ahead and submit it there. They do read those feedbacks, but cannot respond personally to each submission. Be sure and include a description of your system in the report, they can usually recreate just about any type of system when they test. Vista Feedback Portal: https://feedback.windowsvista.micros...ctkey=winvista Take care, -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I just tried with a wired mouse and can still reproduce the problem easily. I can't use a wired keyboard because my wired keyboard has a PS/2 plug and my computer running Vista has only USB slots. Still, it seems unlikely that the keyboard is the problem. Your assessment makes sense: it sounds like the mouse drag operation (a combination of mouse down, mouse move, and mouse up events) is not bringing focus to the right-hand panel. What version/build are you running? I'm on Vista Home Premium, Build 6000. Maybe this was fixed in a later build? Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I'm not having any problem following your instructions, they are very clear. I just cannot reproduce the behavior you are seeing. The problem does appear to be a focus issue. Prior to dragging and selecting the files, the focus is on the folder and dragging to select the files doesn't appear to change the focus to the files that are being selected. This is why you are seeing the message about deleting the folder instead of the selected files. A single mouse click is actually 2 separate functions. One is when you press the mouse button and the second is when you release the button. You can see this by clicking a folder that contains sub-folders, the sub-folders will appear in the right side pane. If you position the mouse cursor in the right side pane and press/hold the right mouse button, nothing happens, but as soon as you release the right mouse button, the context menu pops up. In this case, the press gave the right side pane focus and the release caused the context menu to appear. In this same scenario,you can also press and hold the right mouse button, drag the cursor to select an area or a file/folder, but nothing will happen until you 'release' the right mouse button which will then pop up the context menu, completing the operation. In the behavior you are describing, you press and hold the left mouse button, drag to select the files and then release the mouse button. The 'press' appears to work properly, but the operation isn't complete until the button is released and this appears to be where the operation fails. The only difference between our testing appears to be that you are using wireless hardware and I am using wired hardware. If it's not too much trouble, try switching to a wired mouse and try to recreate the behavior. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... The key to reproducing this is that immediately after clicking on the folder in the left-hand tree view, you need to "draw a box" in the right-hand list view that implicitly selects one or more files. You need to start the box by NOT clicking directly on the file itself, and you need to completely avoid doing a normal single-click. I start by positioning the mouse pointer well to the right of the file name. Then I press down on the left-hand mouse button (don't release!) and drag the pointer to the southwest, drawing a solid blue box that partially touches the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". It may sound strange, but I actually use this technique all the time to move files around. I can actually reproduce this with just a single folder and a single file. I create a "Test" directory right off the "C:" drive with a single, empty text file called "Test1.txt" in that directory. Next, click on any folder in the left-hand tree view OTHER than "Test". Now click on the "Test" folder in the left-hand tree view. Then follow the instructions above. I am using a Dell wireless mouse and wireless keyboard (Bluetooth), though I'd be surprised if that made a difference. In terms of options, I'm just using the classic Windows Explorer with a tree view of folders in the left-hand panel and a list view of files/subfolders in the right-hand panel. I'm using the "Details" view in the right-hand panel. Let me know if you're able to reproduce with this information. If not, I'll try digging up my older wired keyboard and mouse and see if that makes a difference. If you want to reach me directly you can e-mail me at davidamdur (at) gmail (dot) com. Thanks, Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I also cannot recreate what you are describing here? It appears that for whatever reason, the focus is being transferred properly from the TestSub folder to the 2 selected files in the right side pane, even though the details bar shows 2 files selected? Give us some more details about where in the folder tree these folders are being created. Also, what type of hardware are you using, wireless mouse or keyboard or? What settings are you using in folder options, classic folders, single or double click, etc. Try using the mouse to right click, hold down 'Shift' and select the Delete command in the context menu in step 7. This is very interesting. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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Bug in Windows explorer can result in lost files
Dave
Your welcome, you did a good job in describing the behavior. I doubt that the AMD is responsible, but who knows? Stranger things have happened. g One other bit of information is that, like many other components, Windows Explorer was rebuilt from the ground up using .NET for the first time. There may still be some errant bugs in there. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... Cool. Thanks for reading all my posts! The only other thing that occurs to me is that I'm on an AMD Athlon machine. It's probably a long shot, but I did once encounter a bug in MATLAB that only cropped up only on AMD (as opposed to Intel) boxes. I'll send a feedback message through the URL you mentioned, too. Thanks again. Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Dave Thanks for the info. I have 3 Vista systems running here, 2 test systems with Home Premium and Business and my production machine with Ultimate. The 2 test systems are the original Build 6000 and the production machine is Build 6001 (SP1). I have tried this scenario on all 3 with the same results. I'll add this problem to my research list and also try to escalate it with the Shell Team as far as I can. If I find anything I'll let you know with the email address you provided and post the information to this thread. There is also another feedback path to Microsoft, if you want to go ahead and submit it there. They do read those feedbacks, but cannot respond personally to each submission. Be sure and include a description of your system in the report, they can usually recreate just about any type of system when they test. Vista Feedback Portal: https://feedback.windowsvista.micros...ctkey=winvista Take care, -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I just tried with a wired mouse and can still reproduce the problem easily. I can't use a wired keyboard because my wired keyboard has a PS/2 plug and my computer running Vista has only USB slots. Still, it seems unlikely that the keyboard is the problem. Your assessment makes sense: it sounds like the mouse drag operation (a combination of mouse down, mouse move, and mouse up events) is not bringing focus to the right-hand panel. What version/build are you running? I'm on Vista Home Premium, Build 6000. Maybe this was fixed in a later build? Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I'm not having any problem following your instructions, they are very clear. I just cannot reproduce the behavior you are seeing. The problem does appear to be a focus issue. Prior to dragging and selecting the files, the focus is on the folder and dragging to select the files doesn't appear to change the focus to the files that are being selected. This is why you are seeing the message about deleting the folder instead of the selected files. A single mouse click is actually 2 separate functions. One is when you press the mouse button and the second is when you release the button. You can see this by clicking a folder that contains sub-folders, the sub-folders will appear in the right side pane. If you position the mouse cursor in the right side pane and press/hold the right mouse button, nothing happens, but as soon as you release the right mouse button, the context menu pops up. In this case, the press gave the right side pane focus and the release caused the context menu to appear. In this same scenario,you can also press and hold the right mouse button, drag the cursor to select an area or a file/folder, but nothing will happen until you 'release' the right mouse button which will then pop up the context menu, completing the operation. In the behavior you are describing, you press and hold the left mouse button, drag to select the files and then release the mouse button. The 'press' appears to work properly, but the operation isn't complete until the button is released and this appears to be where the operation fails. The only difference between our testing appears to be that you are using wireless hardware and I am using wired hardware. If it's not too much trouble, try switching to a wired mouse and try to recreate the behavior. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... The key to reproducing this is that immediately after clicking on the folder in the left-hand tree view, you need to "draw a box" in the right-hand list view that implicitly selects one or more files. You need to start the box by NOT clicking directly on the file itself, and you need to completely avoid doing a normal single-click. I start by positioning the mouse pointer well to the right of the file name. Then I press down on the left-hand mouse button (don't release!) and drag the pointer to the southwest, drawing a solid blue box that partially touches the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". It may sound strange, but I actually use this technique all the time to move files around. I can actually reproduce this with just a single folder and a single file. I create a "Test" directory right off the "C:" drive with a single, empty text file called "Test1.txt" in that directory. Next, click on any folder in the left-hand tree view OTHER than "Test". Now click on the "Test" folder in the left-hand tree view. Then follow the instructions above. I am using a Dell wireless mouse and wireless keyboard (Bluetooth), though I'd be surprised if that made a difference. In terms of options, I'm just using the classic Windows Explorer with a tree view of folders in the left-hand panel and a list view of files/subfolders in the right-hand panel. I'm using the "Details" view in the right-hand panel. Let me know if you're able to reproduce with this information. If not, I'll try digging up my older wired keyboard and mouse and see if that makes a difference. If you want to reach me directly you can e-mail me at davidamdur (at) gmail (dot) com. Thanks, Dave "Ronnie Vernon MVP" wrote: Hi Dave I also cannot recreate what you are describing here? It appears that for whatever reason, the focus is being transferred properly from the TestSub folder to the 2 selected files in the right side pane, even though the details bar shows 2 files selected? Give us some more details about where in the folder tree these folders are being created. Also, what type of hardware are you using, wireless mouse or keyboard or? What settings are you using in folder options, classic folders, single or double click, etc. Try using the mouse to right click, hold down 'Shift' and select the Delete command in the context menu in step 7. This is very interesting. -- Ronnie Vernon Microsoft MVP Windows Desktop Experience "Dave" wrote in message ... I believe I've found a bug in Windows Explorer that I can reproduce reliably. If anyone can get this to a QA engineer in the Vista group at Microsoft, I'd appreciate it. Here's how to reproduce: 1. Open the Windows explorer browser (not Internet Explorer). Set it up so that you that you can see folders in the left-hand tree view panel and files in the right-hand list panel. 2. Create a new folder called "Test" and a subfolder below it called "TestSub". 3. In the SubTest folder, create three text files. Call them "Test1.txt", "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt". Just to make the files non-empty, open them up and type a single character into each (I typed "x") and save. 4. In the left-hand tree view, click on any folder that is not in the Test - SubTest hierarchy. 5. Again from the left-hand tree view, single click on the "TestSub" folder. 6. In the right-hand list view, highlight just the files "Test2.txt" and "Test3.txt" by holding down the left mouse button and dragging the cursor over both files. The message "2 items selected" should appear in the bottom-left of the window. 7. From the keyboard, click "Shift + Delete". = Vista pops a message saying "Are you sure you want to permanently delete this FOLDER?" (caps mine) 8. If you click Yes, Vista deletes the subfolder "SubTest", including the file "Test1.txt", which was not selected! This is bad. Any reasonable user in this circumstance would expect that Windows will delete the last selection, not the entire folder containing that selection. I am pretty sure this is a new problem starting with Vista. I used to use the technique above to delete files in Windows 2000 and Windows XP all the time, and I have saw this happen in those OSs. With Vista, I have lost files as a result of this behavior because I have the admittedly bad habit of using Shift + Delete and OK'ing through the warning box. (Fortunately I keep good backups.) Still, Vista's behavior here is, in my opinion, incorrect. Someone should start a bug report on this. Dave ---------------- This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane. http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com... e_management |
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