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General Vista Help and Support The general Windows Vista discussion forum, for topics not covered elsewhere. (microsoft.public.windows.vista.general) |
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A happy future...
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A happy future...
Too much reading for me. Please summarize.
wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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A happy future...
Peter Gutmann summarizes the link this way elsewhe
'Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called "premium content". This incurs significant costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista, but the entire PC industry. My Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection looks at the cost involved in Vista's content protection and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the entire computer industry.' "Roscoe" wrote in message ... Too much reading for me. Please summarize. wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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A happy future...
I just love it when people get into this mode. Obviously, the fellow who
wrote this has some sort of political axe to grind, and is not a developer, or at least not a competent one. The text is rife with descriptions of problems. A developer is by nature a problem-solver. To elucidate problems without hinting at any possible solution is fine, as long as one is willing to abandon the idea of drawing any conclusions. Yet, this document is simply a descriptions of problems as a large set of premises to a conclusion that paints Microsoft in a bad light, for whatever personal reasons are held privately by the author, and that is simply illogical. Bottom line is, computer software and hardware development is a business. Ultimately, the market will decide whether Microsoft made the right decisions or not, and the public will vote with their pocketbooks. There is plenty of competition out there, so there are plenty of alternatives. Therefore, anyone who is overly concerned about such commentary is concerned by choice, for whatever personal motivations they may have, and the impact of this is on a purely personal level. -- HTH, Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP Bit Player http://unclechutney.blogspot.com A pea rants as candy be sieving. "Michael Jennings" wrote in message ... Peter Gutmann summarizes the link this way elsewhe 'Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called "premium content". This incurs significant costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista, but the entire PC industry. My Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection looks at the cost involved in Vista's content protection and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the entire computer industry.' "Roscoe" wrote in message ... Too much reading for me. Please summarize. wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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Last Updated 27 Dec 2006
When I saw he updated it tomorrow and posted it yesterday, an obvious error
withn the first few lines, I knew it couldn't be very accurate so I dismissed the complete article. More Eggnog anyone? wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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Last Updated 27 Dec 2006
Going on you being Central Time and him being in Australia, there's a 16
hour time difference... When you made your post it was 1.30 am in Australia. "Henry Jones" wrote in message ... When I saw he updated it tomorrow and posted it yesterday, an obvious error withn the first few lines, I knew it couldn't be very accurate so I dismissed the complete article. More Eggnog anyone? wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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Last Updated 27 Dec 2006
You better learn world geography. With time-zone differences, that is
certainly possible. And you better learn more about the encryption industry. Peter Gutmann is a well known expert. Does it mean he's right on all these points? Well, most of the technical issues are well-known and documented. The socio-political implications are clearly opinion since no one can predict the future. You should read the article. Dale "Henry Jones" wrote in message ... When I saw he updated it tomorrow and posted it yesterday, an obvious error withn the first few lines, I knew it couldn't be very accurate so I dismissed the complete article. More Eggnog anyone? wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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A happy future...
He seems to be an open source cryptographer, which would give him a
number of axes to grind. His premise amounts to, "Microsoft is flapping its arms in hopes of flying," based on what he says would be a quick job (for an expert like himself) of defeating the copy protection scheme. So he expects everyone betting 'Microsoft can fly by flapping its arms' to lose. If the premise is sound, there's nothing illogical about the statement. The solution was not hinted at, it was stated - buy a $50 DVD player rather than get caught in the costly tangle of a copyprot media computer. Now this guy could have overestimated his expertise and the ease of defeating the copy protection. If Microsoft wants to try flying by flapping its arms, gets liftoff and sustains flight, then they can gobble up entertainment and complete its transformation into technical splendor devoid of content. "Kevin Spencer" wrote in message ... I just love it when people get into this mode. Obviously, the fellow who wrote this has some sort of political axe to grind, and is not a developer, or at least not a competent one. The text is rife with descriptions of problems. A developer is by nature a problem-solver. To elucidate problems without hinting at any possible solution is fine, as long as one is willing to abandon the idea of drawing any conclusions. Yet, this document is simply a descriptions of problems as a large set of premises to a conclusion that paints Microsoft in a bad light, for whatever personal reasons are held privately by the author, and that is simply illogical. Bottom line is, computer software and hardware development is a business. Ultimately, the market will decide whether Microsoft made the right decisions or not, and the public will vote with their pocketbooks. There is plenty of competition out there, so there are plenty of alternatives. Therefore, anyone who is overly concerned about such commentary is concerned by choice, for whatever personal motivations they may have, and the impact of this is on a purely personal level. -- HTH, Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP Bit Player http://unclechutney.blogspot.com A pea rants as candy be sieving. "Michael Jennings" wrote in message ... Peter Gutmann summarizes the link this way elsewhe 'Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called "premium content". This incurs significant costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista, but the entire PC industry. My Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection looks at the cost involved in Vista's content protection and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the entire computer industry.' "Roscoe" wrote in message ... Too much reading for me. Please summarize. wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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A happy future...
Well, let's see. Peter Gutmann has a Ph.D. in Computer Science. He is a
well-known expert in cryptography. While I don't know what your education and experience credentials are, I have a feeling that they don't hold a candle to Gutmann's. And for the record, mine don't either - that isn't an insult, it's just a fact. Did you follow the links for any of the sources in the sources section? Did you read any of them? I did. Even the ones from Microsoft. His technical descriptions are clearly accurate. To call them a personal issue or vendetta is naive and indicate that it is you that is unwilling to "abandon the idea of drawing any conclusions." The socio-political implications of the hardware restrictions that Gutmann describes are obviously his opinion but he's not without expertise in the area. As for your statement that the software and hardware business is a business and therefore subject to market demands, you underestimate the power of monopoly. Without drawing conclusions whether or not Microsoft holds one today, if they, or anyone else for that matter, do hold one in the media distribution arena in the future, you can be sure that consumer demand will not drive that market. Remember the AT&T monopoly that owned the telephone and long distance markets, including the hardware? Remember when you weren't allowed to own your phone and had to pay rent for it even if you rented it for 30 years? Since the breakup of the monopoly, now telephones are cheap and long distance is virtually free. A friend of mine who worked for the phone company pre-breakup used to show his contempt for customers by joking, "If you don't like the service, call the other phone company." Monopolies do not respond to market demand. They control market availability. While I am sure you will (and probably should) question my right to make a prediction as well, it has long been my prediction that soon (in less than 20 years), DVDs and CDs will be gone and all media will be DRM'd and you will begin to pay per use or listen, rather than owning a perpetual license to listen to it. Dale "Kevin Spencer" wrote in message ... I just love it when people get into this mode. Obviously, the fellow who wrote this has some sort of political axe to grind, and is not a developer, or at least not a competent one. The text is rife with descriptions of problems. A developer is by nature a problem-solver. To elucidate problems without hinting at any possible solution is fine, as long as one is willing to abandon the idea of drawing any conclusions. Yet, this document is simply a descriptions of problems as a large set of premises to a conclusion that paints Microsoft in a bad light, for whatever personal reasons are held privately by the author, and that is simply illogical. Bottom line is, computer software and hardware development is a business. Ultimately, the market will decide whether Microsoft made the right decisions or not, and the public will vote with their pocketbooks. There is plenty of competition out there, so there are plenty of alternatives. Therefore, anyone who is overly concerned about such commentary is concerned by choice, for whatever personal motivations they may have, and the impact of this is on a purely personal level. -- HTH, Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP Bit Player http://unclechutney.blogspot.com A pea rants as candy be sieving. "Michael Jennings" wrote in message ... Peter Gutmann summarizes the link this way elsewhe 'Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called "premium content". This incurs significant costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista, but the entire PC industry. My Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection looks at the cost involved in Vista's content protection and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the entire computer industry.' "Roscoe" wrote in message ... Too much reading for me. Please summarize. wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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A happy future...
Now, that was a most excellent post- bravo!
Very well articulated and spot on. -Michael "Dale" wrote in message ... Well, let's see. Peter Gutmann has a Ph.D. in Computer Science. He is a well-known expert in cryptography. While I don't know what your education and experience credentials are, I have a feeling that they don't hold a candle to Gutmann's. And for the record, mine don't either - that isn't an insult, it's just a fact. Did you follow the links for any of the sources in the sources section? Did you read any of them? I did. Even the ones from Microsoft. His technical descriptions are clearly accurate. To call them a personal issue or vendetta is naive and indicate that it is you that is unwilling to "abandon the idea of drawing any conclusions." The socio-political implications of the hardware restrictions that Gutmann describes are obviously his opinion but he's not without expertise in the area. As for your statement that the software and hardware business is a business and therefore subject to market demands, you underestimate the power of monopoly. Without drawing conclusions whether or not Microsoft holds one today, if they, or anyone else for that matter, do hold one in the media distribution arena in the future, you can be sure that consumer demand will not drive that market. Remember the AT&T monopoly that owned the telephone and long distance markets, including the hardware? Remember when you weren't allowed to own your phone and had to pay rent for it even if you rented it for 30 years? Since the breakup of the monopoly, now telephones are cheap and long distance is virtually free. A friend of mine who worked for the phone company pre-breakup used to show his contempt for customers by joking, "If you don't like the service, call the other phone company." Monopolies do not respond to market demand. They control market availability. While I am sure you will (and probably should) question my right to make a prediction as well, it has long been my prediction that soon (in less than 20 years), DVDs and CDs will be gone and all media will be DRM'd and you will begin to pay per use or listen, rather than owning a perpetual license to listen to it. Dale "Kevin Spencer" wrote in message ... I just love it when people get into this mode. Obviously, the fellow who wrote this has some sort of political axe to grind, and is not a developer, or at least not a competent one. The text is rife with descriptions of problems. A developer is by nature a problem-solver. To elucidate problems without hinting at any possible solution is fine, as long as one is willing to abandon the idea of drawing any conclusions. Yet, this document is simply a descriptions of problems as a large set of premises to a conclusion that paints Microsoft in a bad light, for whatever personal reasons are held privately by the author, and that is simply illogical. Bottom line is, computer software and hardware development is a business. Ultimately, the market will decide whether Microsoft made the right decisions or not, and the public will vote with their pocketbooks. There is plenty of competition out there, so there are plenty of alternatives. Therefore, anyone who is overly concerned about such commentary is concerned by choice, for whatever personal motivations they may have, and the impact of this is on a purely personal level. -- HTH, Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP Bit Player http://unclechutney.blogspot.com A pea rants as candy be sieving. "Michael Jennings" wrote in message ... Peter Gutmann summarizes the link this way elsewhe 'Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called "premium content". This incurs significant costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista, but the entire PC industry. My Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection looks at the cost involved in Vista's content protection and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the entire computer industry.' "Roscoe" wrote in message ... Too much reading for me. Please summarize. wrote in message ... How's this for depressing reading: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut00...vista_cost.txt |
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